238. Armageddon Unboxing Reveals

Phil, Richie and Tim Discuss all the miniatures reveals shown off in the 11th edition Warhammer 40k Armageddon Unboxing live stream. You can watch along and see all the miniatures via the YouTube version of the show: https://youtu.be/EHmTBZyhLHc

TIMESTAMPS: 
0:00 - Intro
1:45 - Space Marines
1:33:56 - Orks
2:36:09 - 5 Star Review
2:39:53 - Outro (inc. John Blanche's En Garde: Vanguard Kickstarter)

John Blanche's En Garde: Vanguard Kickstarter: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1199311391/john-blanches-en-garde-vanguard

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:23

Hello, and welcome to episode two hundred and thirty-eight of the Lookin' Up Fer podcast. I am joined later on by Tim and Richard as we discuss the super special Armageddon unboxing reveals, talking specifically about the Space Marines, then followed by the Orcs. We felt like there wasn't a huge amount to say about the extra bits in terms of the book and the cards, and we also sort of ran out of time because just those two segments alone was quite long. So we didn't talk about them, but you know, they all look very cool and excited to see a little bit more about what they will be down the line. So maybe we'll get to talk about those things um once we've heard a little bit more about uh the details of what those what those elements are. So it's worth noting you can watch along on YouTube where we're doing a little screen share. So if you are more of a visual person, you can head over to YouTube, check us out there, and watch and see the miniatures alongside as we talk about them. Alternatively, you can just listen to us over on the audio-only version of the podcast as well. Both are available. Links are normally found down in the description, or just a good old Google search. With that all said and done, we will get on with the show. Transitional noise. So to kick it off, we're going to look at the space marine portion of the Armageddon box set. Uh, the first model they give us is one of the last ones I think they showed us on the live stream, but it's the captain with relic shield. Uh, I think it's worth pointing out that we've had one previous captain with a relic shield, but designed up in a sort of blade guard style with the tabard uh and the helmet. And then we've had two different primaris lieutenants or lieutenants with um relic shields as well. But this is the first one where he's just sort of in more standard armour and not looking like a blade god. But I personally really like it. I think it's very cool, dynamic pose.

SPEAKER_00 2:29

Yeah, I think the the original was in the Indomitus box, because I think I've got his way. Yeah, it had like a it had like a uh I I don't I can't the the fancy word for it is not swinged on, but it had like skeleton, like a skeleton on the front of the shield.

SPEAKER_05 2:42

Yes, like a uh yeah, an actual uh dead skeleton on his shield, and he was sort of holding it so the shield was on the ground. Yes, well uh no, I mean uh as opposed to a a fake skeleton, a prop skeleton. I assumed it was a real relic uh that belonged to somebody or was somebody uh at some point. But yeah, it was on the ground and he was kind of holding it. Um and then they did more recently a lieutenant version kind of in the same pose, which was interesting, but he was still in the blade guard sort of visual language, whereas this one isn't, which I think is interesting. I don't know if that NSA means anything. And then the only other captain with relic shield was the more recent jump pack one, um, which would also fit in with this box set because there's a lot of jump pack units uh in this box set. Um but yeah, as you as you started talking, Richie, let me know your opinion on this mini.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

I I am not con I'm I don't know if this is the first time this has happened, but we know he's a captain because he's got both feet on a rock. It's it's such a jumbo tactical rock. It's because we've I've used the tactical rock, which has been up which is now like the sergeants appear to be using that now. So you know sergeant because they've got their phone rock. This guy's the on the entire rock. I think the mini is really cool. I like I like that it hark it feels like it's harking back to different eras as well, with the different like they they feels like they've across the range of these new minis, there are uh callbacks to the different eras of space marine um armour in there because it it because I've I'm there are elements to it that don't feel entirely primary, like the kind of Roman um image the kind of Roman soldier stuff to it with the cloaks and like the there's the tab not the tab or whatever the Tarujas is that the is that the straps? The levery straps, yeah. The levery straps around his groin. Um that kind of swing around. That's that's really cool. There's an obscene amount of um uh what are they called? The the wax seal things I've got completely. Purity seals. That's what purity seals, yeah. There's so many purity seals. It's so dynam as a it's really dying. I the the reason I really love this mini is the reason I don't like another one. That's we'll come on to. But there's so much dynamic dynamicism in the pose, and you can see that he's moving. Um it doesn't and it's like the wind's blowing with like the and you with the whether you can see the purity seal texting out flying there. It's it's it's really cool. I think it's fantastic. I do when I when they first revealed the movie, I thought it was okay because I've the the headed for the that the head version I'm I think is fine, but it's not I don't particularly like it that much. The helmeted versions are both awesome, they're really, really cool.

SPEAKER_05 5:25

I I kind of agree. I'm not a huge fan of the haircuts or like the mini mohawk that he's got, but uh when they previewed off which I don't think they've got here, oh they do have it here. Uh the different helmets, I kind of particularly like the crest and the old mock ones, kind of interesting to see that they've started to do that effectively across all the minis in this space being range. Um, but yeah, I do like it. I think it's got a good amount of uh dynamic posing, as you're saying, with the purity seals and the cape. Um yeah, I mean I've never been a huge fan of the relic shield design, but it is good. But personally I would swap it out. But then that's just because of the theme of my spice being chapter, so I would swap that out to match.

SPEAKER_00 6:11

I think it's cool. I I've got lots of blade guard in my uh Imperial Fist list, but I didn't use any of the relic shields that came with them. I I bought the I'm pretty sure I got the Forge World. Right as like an upgrade for there's a unit in the Forge in for Heresy back then that which had their own like storm shields, which are Imperial Fist things, so I've got I've gone I'd gone one of those. I don't know if you can still do that. Um but I don't I think it's a pr I I think it's a pretty cool shield. I think it's I think it makes this one makes a lot more sense because the the previous captain where he had like the the relic sk bones on there is like you're gonna that's just gonna get destroyed. Uh as soon as you block anything. Whereas I think that this one looks cool, but yeah. I think this is awesome. I I love the Mark I. I think the Mark I helmet's the coolest one, though I like that there was that big Mark 7 style. Which which what which what the the the proper Space Marine helmet, as far as I would say. The the proper one uh is uh as well as the new style with like the Roman Mohawk on a helmet thing.

SPEAKER_05 7:11

Yeah, the crest uh that's one. That's quite useful, yeah. But it is interesting that it isn't the blade guard style helmet, but then I guess they haven't given him the tabards and stuff, so I think visually it means he could fit in with a regular like squad of intercessors or non-blade guard unit better than the blade guard specific one who really only looks like he fits in with the blade guard unit. Um, but Tim, you've been silent long enough. Uh give us your your hot take.

SPEAKER_04 7:39

Thank you. No, I r I really like the model. Um I I would have liked to have seen maybe possible different weapon loadouts. I guess that's just because I'd like to see uh or let uh like to see us have the ability to make our own little Alexis Pollock with like the Rick Shield and like a power fist, or maybe something more salamandry with like um a Thunder Hammer. But this model also reminds me of the Wolfguard battle leader that they recently uh released as well, because that's quite dynamic with the wind blowing in a certain way, the cape goes the same way, it's still it's kind of got that similar wide stance with the arm outstretched with the shield, sorry, with the power sword. Um so yeah, it's it's a good classic.

SPEAKER_05 8:27

I do wonder if they will do a multi-part effectively variant of the captain that might give us some more weapon options. They've sort of done that in the past, and there is a captain kit at the moment with lots of weapon options, but I don't think it comes with a shield. Um, and likewise when we get to the orcs, they've already previewed there is a multi-part orc war boss, even though there's a war boss in this kit as well. So they're surprised.

SPEAKER_04 8:55

I would not be surprised, and I'm gonna put on like my 3D artist hat here, if they just have their generic template space marine captain that they can just pose in every different way they want inside their chosen 3D uh tool of choice. Um, so it's really quick, it's really quick for them to mock up concept ideas and stuff as well. Yeah, true. Richard.

SPEAKER_00 9:18

I was gonna say it is worth mentioning clarifying for the for the listeners who may not be aware of this. As far as we're aware, every mini in this box is push fit and mono is and monopose, as far as yeah. But I think I think they're saying that of authority, I might be able to.

SPEAKER_05 9:32

They have said in the live stream that they're push fit for sure. Um, and it sort of makes sense. I think the only variation they're giving us is head options, and from what I remembered, every character and model has a helmet and unhelmeted option, even though some of the times in the live stream they only showed us one option. I think on this page that we're looking at, they they have shown us both variants, which I think is really good. And it is nice because I think sometimes they have just given us a barehead option and no helmets, and a lot of people do like helmets basically.

SPEAKER_04 10:07

I would expect to see this kit um be sold in its own with maybe different weapon options if it does follow the space wolf kind of captain vibe.

SPEAKER_05 10:18

I think what we'd get though is a different pose. I don't think they would just give us the s exact same model but with multi-part options, a bit like the Orc War Boss, they're they're like two completely different war bosses, basically. Which is extra variation, and that has its own problems where it makes you go, well, I as a collector I want to buy two, but as a game where I only need one, and that's a bit frustrating, but also it gives us lots of more choice, so it's uh it has pros and cons in in both ways. Uh next up is Librarian, which is like a re-sculpt of the last uh fine cast version of the librarian that we had. Uh, but he came with a bonus cherub. Uh this one doesn't, but the pose is basically exactly the same. I think it's a very cool pose. I do like it with the staff. Um I've never been a huge fan of like the weird um embossed detail or um on the staff and when they do that on the four swords as well. But that's a very minor nitpick. Um, but I do love it, and it looks like the uh rocks are sort of flying up in the air as well, which I think is very cool.

SPEAKER_04 11:26

I like the theme of the rocks and the bases and stuff. I've I'm just wondering how would you replicate that across your sort of base troops?

SPEAKER_05 11:34

Uh well, a whole army. Yeah, I because they they specifically said they've sort of themed this box set to Armageddon, and they've done that with the bases. So, for example, if you look at the captain, there's uh an orc head uh or an orc skull at the bottom, and they did show off a few uh models where they kind of go side by side in terms of a diorama. So it was uh this librarian, you can put the weird boy next to him, and it looks like they're fighting, and likewise the two uh the captain and the war boss, they kind of like the the sculpting of the rocks all sort of flow in the same direction and they're all facing the right direction, so visually they look uh correct. Um, and then we've got things like the banners, which we'll get to when we see it. So it is cool, but it's very stylistically different from what you get with the rest of the space marine range. So it does so it would sort of stand out on its own and maybe would require a bit of I don't know, green stuffing some of your normal rocks to maybe look a bit more pointy to make them match in with this, but I don't think it would be that noticeable to be honest. As long as the like the the rim colour and the basing's all consistent, I think the style of the rock is minor enough that it wouldn't stand out.

SPEAKER_04 12:52

That's fair. I mean I guess if you just have your key characters on like flamboyant bases, then the rest of the army on just normal bases that have the same colour scheme, it's not gonna match. But it's not gonna matter that much. Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_05 13:06

If I remember rightly, Richie, you got the last Terminator librarian, didn't you?

SPEAKER_00 13:11

I I I do, I do have the last terminator librarian.

SPEAKER_05 13:14

Because I remember you you you painting up all the runic detail which we've finally seen sort of transpose onto this armour. Because before the librarians in power armour didn't have that uh sort of runic details on them.

SPEAKER_00 13:28

I don't I can't remember if they did a I've not really done the the Space Marine librarians for a little while, so it might do on a on a Paramount one. I didn't I I got a terminate one because I was specifically building like a Deathwing, entirely Deathwing force at the time, so I got the terminal terminated librarian, so I can't speak to it. I do think the the runic symbols is cool. They are a right paint to paint, I found when I or this was what I did because I thought I did the whole paint scheme completely wrong and it looked terrible.

SPEAKER_05 13:56

Um It looked alright. It looked alright.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

I I thought it'd be really cool. I I really like the the um the Necron, it's like the Necron glow or Tesseract glow. Yeah, Tesseract glow paint. I think that looks really cool. What it doesn't look cool on is when you use that to represent like uh the glow of a librarian because when you put it on top of blue armour, uh it just makes him look like he's pissed himself.

SPEAKER_05 14:23

Uh I think blue and green kind of clash, so they're not let's say contrasting enough.

SPEAKER_00 14:30

It's it didn't look very good, so but I think I I do kind of dig this model. The thing I like the most about it is the ide is it it visualises the staff being key to the librarian in like a kind of Gandalf kind of way, like a wizard kind of way. Like he's using it in almost every miniature they've had, if for any kind of um librarian, it feels for years, they've had a force weapon, which is just literally like their beat stick thing, or whether it's a stuck whether it's an axe or a staff or a sword, and their and their magic, their psychic powers are coming out of their hand. Um this time it's like the psychic powers are it everything appears to be like part of him his energy, but also for the staff, like the staff. It's like a conduit, yeah. Yeah, and I think that's kind of cool. Um the that that the the kind of focusing that element that the staff is like a conduit for the map for his powers, which I think is cool.

SPEAKER_05 15:28

Hmm. I really like the uh sort of librarian symbol on the iron halo. I think that's really nice. Uh and obviously they've got it, they've repeated that motif on his uh glove as well. Yeah, but it's it's a cool mini. I think it's very good. And there is a helmeted option, uh which they do show us, and yeah, you can see the rocks being really dynamic. There's some glow on the backpacks as well. And yeah, I mean personally I really like the helmeted option, but that's just how I would do it for my army.

SPEAKER_00 16:02

I am wondering how much of the bases are sculpted or how much is like are done after the fact. Because in the in the sense that in terms of these little stony bits here, I think something like the little stony bits like is that part uh is that just part of what's on the sprue? Um, or because uh because sometimes when they have these like really um nice cool dynamic bases, a lot of that detail is actually just built into is like built into the sprue, and then you put it and you glue it again, it's there. But I'm wondering how much of that the smaller elements, especially the the the random twigs and branches that appear to be on them, makes me wonder how much of that is well the yeah, the the little twiggy bits is just actual like grass that they've stuck on.

SPEAKER_05 16:40

The tiny little stones actually I mean on the right hand side under his foot, it sort of looks like that could be part of the plastic, like moulded base, but then the bit under the big rock looks more like that's stone stuck down on PVA. It's a bit hard to tell, to be honest. Um so yeah, I don't know. I think we'd have to see the sprues to determine. I think that just looks too detailed to be injection mold with plastic, uh personally. Um but yeah, I I don't actually know. Um I guess when we look at uh the next character, the chaplain with a jump pack, uh let's have a look at his base. Yeah, because it's so well blended, I would say they've applied some sand or um like stones to that base. I imagine things like the skull would be part of uh the base. Unless it unless unless that detail is literally the ba on the base as opposed to uh something you stick to uh a black base. Because you get the black base that you then stick detail to, or you get a like sculpted base with the detail baked into it. And I guess it could be either to be honest.

SPEAKER_04 17:59

Because part of the skulls sorry, I think the skulls are from the skull kit and they're just like cut and glued on.

SPEAKER_00 18:06

If it's like other kit, if it's like other push-fit kind of kits, so when they get to the big boxes, there'll be like an empty uh an empty hex shape onto which you can stick some kind of base um basing uh things onto.

SPEAKER_05 18:19

That is what it is because I remember in the live stream they were talking about the sprues, and they said something like, Oh, if you base aficionados, you get like a bag of 30 bases. So they're not like they're on the sprue and part of the model, they are just black basic bases. So a lot of this is probably maybe I mean the the skull might be one of those bits of detail that goes into a hex, but definitely all the stone sort of undulating terrain and blending it in with the tactical rock that chatlin's off of. That's clearly all added on, likewise of the twigs and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 19:00

I guess I'm I'm partly wondering, are they gonna be releasing some kind of like twigs basing kit or something? Because it's like a theme across um a lot of the minis is these like twigs and brand and like dead branches on the bases. I'm wondering, is that is that just gonna be something that you have that is gonna be emblematic of the miniatures, but it's entirely you have to figure out how to do that yourself rather than with anything that Games World Dribble supply.

SPEAKER_05 19:23

Yeah, I think that's just you know, someone's gone out to a garden and uh and got some twigs and stuck it down just to make it a bit more interesting to sort of represent a desert, right?

SPEAKER_00 19:34

It's if there's any super many like pro-basing people, um, just send me a DM to let me know how that's done.

SPEAKER_05 19:41

I I mean I I I've done literally exactly that with my minor tours, and I literally went into my garden and found some dried up grass and I just stuck it down and varnished them, uh, and then they're still there to this day several years later. Um, yeah, so it's quite straightforward. You just gotta scout around for the right sort of spindly bits of root or grass or something to do that. I'm sure there are um basing companies that will sell stuff like that as well. Um anyway, let's move on to the chaplain. Um, this one's a bit more hit and miss for me. Um I think the helmet is very cool. I like that. It's basically this banding detail on the jump pack and on the legs, and that banding detail on the legs, I think we've seen it's is very reminiscent to both the uh Inquisitor Cotiez and the Sangrony Guard. Might not be exactly the same, but it's yeah, it just feels like it's detailed to fill up space, but it doesn't look particularly great personally for me. Um I don't mind things I know the the I presume it's like a smoke grenade or something that's uh attached uh the model to the base via a little puff of cloud. I don't mind that so so much. I know lots of people have hated on it. I think the pose is just looks a little bit odd, but maybe that's just for angle of the model. Um but overall I think it's quite good and there is a lot of nice detail on it.

SPEAKER_02 21:14

What do you guys think? I hate the smoke. Oh okay. It ruins the mini for me.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

Because from the front it looks cool. Because I'm you can imagine that it from the front you can imagine the smoke is like could somehow connect to the jump pack or something, and it's goes and but it's like it's it's unclear like what is the m is what's the momentum of the m the miniature? Is it is he going up, is he going down? I think he's actually I think jumping down. I think he's more just he's just going forward. He just doing a little leap. Yeah, well it's almost like he's like he is like at that but at the point of the motion, he's just going forward. He's not he's going neither up nor down, is my take on it. Because looking at like the the the But the the movement of the purity seals and and his um like all the other tassels and stuff on it makes it feel like he's just going forward um as opposed to up or down.

SPEAKER_05 22:10

Yeah, I mean these two purity seals look like there's a slightly more downward motion potentially, but it could also just be a forward motion.

SPEAKER_00 22:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 22:20

I mean the ironic thing is the way they do the purity seals implies these were actually put on upside down because actually the purity seal should hang from the bottom and then flow backwards if we were thinking about it technically. But no, they don't do that because that would also look a bit odd. Um so instead it's just pointed in the direction they're affixed in the direction they need to point basically at any point on any module.

SPEAKER_00 22:46

I had I hadn't thought of it that way before, Phil. And now that's like this is stupid. That's in my nitpicking mind now that that looks odd because it because they hit because on the on the uh Crozius Horkanum or Akanum, that's got that does have seal. The seals is like the right kind of way. Yeah. As you say, the ones on the actual well I don't I don't know if they are that if they are one, because if he's if they're standing, maybe it's just so they would be draped but backwards, but then they could easily just they could just get caught in the jets.

SPEAKER_05 23:15

Maybe that's the point though is they they hung them.

SPEAKER_00 23:19

They hang them backwards for a little bit of flare, so they f flutter backwards. I think the I think the pose is cool, but some of the details like the smoke and the those the coats the seals on the shoulder on the the the jump pack look a bit odd. I've never liked the extra the extra flaps that jump packs have now that they started adding in. The fins over top the fins. I've never liked them. I don't I it sounds like you don't like the extra like gold, like the and this is like a ready gold trim. Yeah, that's a keynote. I quite like that. I think it adds to the differentiation of this isn't just a this isn't just uh a Vanguard, this isn't just a Vanguard or a jump pack marine wearing but painted black. It's got it's like additional details to it, which I think is cool. Uh I like and I like the fact that he doesn't have um an abundance of unnecessary weapons. He's got his pistol and an empty holster, and he's got his crozier. Um there's no and and he's got his book. When you look at the captain, the captain's got like the shield, his sword, a scabbard, another sword, and a and a pistol in a in a holster as well.

SPEAKER_05 24:26

Is is his pistol missing a clip? It doesn't look like there's a clip on there, or if it is it go is going all the way in.

SPEAKER_00 24:36

I feel that it's a tiny clip. They the clips don't they don't like extended.

SPEAKER_05 24:42

Yeah. Maybe it goes all the way in and then it like ejects out potentially.

SPEAKER_00 24:47

I'm just gonna Google absorber bolt pistol now.

SPEAKER_05 24:50

Maybe that's how it is.

SPEAKER_00 24:52

Uh that that it's ooh, there's different versions. From looking at the pictures, it doesn't it it doesn't sometimes they have a little clip, sometimes they have a very small clip, like in this particular.

SPEAKER_05 25:03

I guess it makes it a bit more streamlined. It does yeah, it just makes me question like, oh, it's a bit unusual, but yeah, I think it's correct. I like little skulls on the side, I think that's cool detail. Um it's interesting that they've done what clearly looks like a grenade or something to give it the smoke puff, but there's also that mini like ankle vent that they could have had it coming out of. But then maybe they thought, well, we couldn't just have the smoke coming out of one of them but not the other. And I think they've designed it in a way where if you didn't like that puff of smoke, you could just attach it to something else instead, like a rod or a different tactical rock, maybe.

SPEAKER_04 25:42

Maybe just to pick up on a few points you've made there, like you would have to trim the smoke off and then probably reattach it to where the vent is near the foot, uh, just to make it a little bit more believable. But with the leg sort of um the leg armour, the embellishment that's going on, I think that's probably just to bring it in line with the other chaplains that they've released in the past, um, and more recently as well. Um, not to go on about space wolves, but the wolf priest has a very similar design, just saying.

SPEAKER_05 26:16

I think that banding's become it feels like it's uh it been on even older miniatures, but it's definitely something we've seen a lot more recently with Primaris since they've tried to bling them up a bit more from the original.

SPEAKER_04 26:30

I genuinely think it is to bring like continuity between all the different chaplains at the moment, and so that like if you see that banding, it's just like a nice visual indicator that yeah, that's that is a chaplain, um, or that's how they style their armor. I would like to see a slightly different pose though. Kind of like oh, what's the blood angel executioner? Astorath? Is that how you say Astarath again? Not necessarily double-handed over the head striking down, but maybe an almighty swing from the side kind of thing.

SPEAKER_05 27:03

Right, a bit more of a baseball bat sort of style swing. Because here he's just holding it and it doesn't look whereas if it was a bit more behind him and looks like he's about to strike someone, I think it would look better.

SPEAKER_04 27:15

Yeah, I just want to see something like with a bit more like I don't know, like it's a chaplain, so they have conviction and they're zealots, and you know, I want to see a bit more, I don't know, emphasis behind their killing blows. Yeah. No, that's fair. Instead of just like a bonk.

SPEAKER_05 27:31

Yeah. Uh one last thing, because uh, you know, I'm conscious we don't want to spend forever just talking about one mini, but uh Richie, when you mentioned about the fins on the back, I've noticed loads of people have been uh making either just regular um like assault jump pack troops or um vanguard vets, and they've actually been using the old uh space marine like jump pack style, which is a bit more boxy with the bigger vents at the top. And I do think there's something really nice about that old style jump pack and the fact that they all had the um like jump pack harness, like the harness that effectively attaches from the torso to the jump pack itself, and that these newer kits don't have that. But I guess it sort of frees up that chess piece for extra detail. But yeah, it it seems to be a bit of a trend. I've noticed lots of people online um doing that as like a kit bash, basically.

SPEAKER_04 28:29

I'm not a fan of the bunny ears.

SPEAKER_05 28:31

I I don't like them, but yeah, I think they just did it once and then like, well, we're stuck with it now, basically.

SPEAKER_00 28:38

Uh okay, there's one what one's one one one one briefing. I think it's cool to see a return. I was just checking up on uh because I saw on this, I thought it was very cool the way the Rosarius is like wrapped around his wrist. And I was wondering, is that have have they done that before? And I was looking at the previous modern minis for chaplains. And it seems like when they've done Primary's chaplains re more recently, um, and I maybe can but at least on my brief just check, they've been the chaplains have been where it have been having the iron halo on their armour, so they haven't had they so they haven't had the Rosarius because in at least historically in the older editions, the Rosarius is what gave the chaplain therefore a pinball. I see. Interesting. Um so it's cool to see that they've A lost the Iron Halo be they lost the iron halo, but he's like wearing that um rosarius round his arm, like his uh whatever the fancy word is for your gauntlet. Gauntlet. Yeah, uh I think that's I think that's a cool edition, but I think that I'm I'm conflicted on the pose in diff in different ways because of like the smoke and the beauty seals, but I do like the fact they've got the Rosarious back and I think that's cool.

SPEAKER_05 29:43

Yeah, that's that makes sense. Okay, next up we've got more jump back troops, which is the Vanguard Veterans, which we had one model uh previewed a while back that was quite randomly mocked for looking a bit too plain. So yeah, here we've got a few different ones. We've got a double-handed power sword, which personally I don't actually like the look of. I think it's just a bit of an awkward uh pose. Uh let's see. I like it.

SPEAKER_00 30:10

I'm with Tim. It's very you both like it.

SPEAKER_05 30:12

I mean, I like the things like you used to get the eviscerators, which were like the double-handed chain swords. Um, I don't know. I just there's something odd about that power sword. I think it's because you've got um the hilt here and the the guard, then you've got some purity seals wrapped around, and then you've got the bottom of the blade above it. So you've actually got a really short blade, and actually this mounting piece here above the purity seal should be down here and covered by the purity seal, and this bit here should just be all blade. So that to me just seems a bit wrong. Like that is a poorly designed power sword. Because what's this bit between here and obviously for all J people this isn't as obvious, but between the hilt and the bottom of the blade where that purity seal is, is this what all plane? Like that makes no sense whatsoever from a design point of view.

SPEAKER_04 31:10

I agree with you, but I also think you hit the nail on the head, and hopefully flesh terror players will love this. But yeah, just change it for a fat old power sword, and that thing will look sick on the double top. I think so. It could be like your new Gabriel Seth rest in peace. It'll be jump pack, dude.

SPEAKER_05 31:27

Interesting to see if a multi-part kit comes along down the line with different weapon options, uh, or if it's like no, they're just all power swords now. I suspect we we will get the uh weapon options though.

SPEAKER_02 31:40

It's a cool range, but it's I I think it's sorry, British, it's a cool range, but yeah.

SPEAKER_05 31:49

Um whereas these ones, like the the ones on the ground, personally, I think look the coolest. Uh like this guy uh on the left, he's got um a different sort of mark of uh leg armour where you don't really have the visible knee pad, but you've got the studs, um, the bonding studs, that looks really cool. Um, and again you've got a Mark 7 uh helmet, and I think the pose is really cool on him. Uh this one's also pretty good where he's up in the air. Um yeah, I like both of those two.

SPEAKER_04 32:24

I am not a fan of the invisible knee pad. I don't mind the knee pad with studs, that's absolutely fine because it's kind of uh obscured that void space. Yeah, not having I don't know what it is, but not having that that disjoint.

SPEAKER_05 32:42

All they've done is they've just taken out the yeah, the panel line that's a circle that sort of denotes the knee. Um but interestingly his other leg actually has it, so it's specifically because of the the bonding studs, I guess, that they've removed it. And they are very small bonding studs. Um, but I guess that means you can hopefully do it without the weird um the skewing effect of them due to the uh limitation of the ingestion, injection plastic moulding techniques, which we've had on certain shoulder pads, uh, for example, in the past. Um and the use of the gold helmets, I think, is really good. Um and then, yeah, these two look good as well, I think. Um are there any sort of standouts out of these that you guys like or dislike or are you fan of the whole thing?

SPEAKER_04 33:33

I say keep them on the ground. Like I'm I I don't actually like them being on rocks and stuff. I get it, they want to be dynamic and jumping around and look like they're landing on stuff or taking off from stuff. But I just say just do that, but just keep them grounded.

SPEAKER_05 33:52

Yeah, I can I can sort of see that because I actually think the grounded ones do look better out of these. I mean, so the one on the right, they've done a really good job of do a like hiding the join. So when you look at it face-on, he does look like he's floating. I just don't think the poses of Space Moons floating in the air looks as cool as like this guy who's either just landed or he's just doing a cool stylish pose. And it's like all the heresy assault guys um with jump packs are all on the ground and they actually look pretty good. Uh this guy sort of is just running, nah, maybe less so, but um, I don't necessarily mind the small rocks and the attachments. It's the sort of thing I would do personally myself, but I just don't think they've got enough necessarily height to make them look particularly interesting. Um that in you know the modern world you don't want them, you know, several inches off the ground because then then they'll either be too top heavy or they're much more visible to being shot at based on the coveralls or whatever. So um and also takes up a lot of space on the sprue, I imagine. So I think there's a myriad of different reasons why they've kept them like this. Um but overall I think they're pretty good. Yeah, agreed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:13

I think it's interesting that the the ones who are on the ground are the ones with basic war gear. And I wonder if that's if there's some reason for that. Because it's the two the two have just got bolt pistols and power swords. Right. Are bolt pistol and power swords. As far as I can as far as I can tell. Because then you've got the plasma pistol, who's the plasma pistol one, who may or I'm I'm assuming that the one who's got the the skull and the wings on his on his head is the sergeant. That's my assumption, which may be completely wrong. My assumption is the the one with the wings on his helmet is the sergeant. So he's off on he's up on a rock, plasma pistol's up on a rock, and the big eviscerator style power sword is also on a rock. So I don't know if that's like a way to help you to determine who the special weapons or something are.

SPEAKER_05 35:59

Maybe, yeah. I think uh you're right, because he's also got the I don't know if the crest is uh different, it's obviously different from him, but yeah, the winged uh crests, uh the winged skull on the helmet makes him look like um the sergeant, even though he's uh he hasn't got the plasma pistol. Whereas normally the sergeant would have a plasma pistol, so you would assume it'd be this guy. Um so yeah, I'm I'm also the helmets yeah, isn't denoting anything.

SPEAKER_00 36:33

I'm also I I'm not I'm I'm very torn on the two-handed the two-handed one because I don't because because of the fact that the the purity seal's just wrapped around just bare metal or something. Um my assumption is there was a big there was a meeting when they were designing the mini, and there were lots of people because I think if it was just a massive sword with the purity seal wrapped around it, that would look really cool. But I could I could imagine there'd be a meeting where someone said, Well that wouldn't actually be able to happen because it would just be melted by the power sword as when it when it turns on. So because I remember because it's power sword, because there was the one of the blade guard was that had the modways like cleaning his sword on like some or like cloth or something. He was cleaning his sword, and I remember when I've when that's when I saw people saw that and people saying, Well, you won't be able to do that. You don't you don't need to clean a power sword, just turn it on, and it will like you something. You don't have to get you, you have to wash the blood off a power sword, it'll just incinerate, it'll be gone. So I do wonder if there was like lots of like look conversations around how they wanted this to look like that that's the reason it looks this way, because it does look I it's hard to tell when the means, but it doesn't look necessarily that the actual blade doesn't look that much longer than on the regular version of the famous one. But it does look really cool.

SPEAKER_05 37:46

But what I find also odd is so you've got the just above the purity seal, you've got effectively like an extra bit of hilt that attaches the blade attaches to, but then it goes inwards, so the purity seal isn't wrapping around the bit above. It feels like it should extend out further. So the thickness of the blade goes really thin where the where the purity seal is, which just again just seems a bit odd.

SPEAKER_00 38:16

I have a thought about that, for what that could be for when we see the full kit. Is that this if I don't know have they said what it's called, this power sword? Is that another bit of handle, do you reckon? I'm wondering if there's another bit of handle, so there'll be a diff alternate version of this where they it doesn't have the purity seal around it, but that's what the other hand is.

SPEAKER_05 38:33

But then why would you have that your hand above the crossguards? That makes no sense.

SPEAKER_00 38:38

I don't know if you want to be holding it more like a last or something or starve. I wonder if there's more if there's alternative if if that weapon has additional lore or something to it that we'll see later on. Um maybe. Because otherwise the blade itself looks kind of small compared to the other. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 38:56

I think all someone needs to do is just with a knife trim that bit off uh so it looks like the blade extends downwards, and then it'll be fine. Um I can't tell what that says, but weirdly it looks like it says McCrag on that um blade, but maybe that's just my ultraman bias uh going on there. Um maybe it says Angelus instead, which I probably does say Angelus, but who knows? Um I'm not always sometimes that keen on that um sculpted in detail. Uh I don't mind it so much when it's like a little cross or something, but when it's a word. Uh great for painting, but I think personally it just seems a bit faffy. Um but yeah, they look pretty good. Um next up uh we've got the ancient, uh, one of many ancients. I think everyone owns one by now. I think all the since yeah, I'm pretty sure since eighth edition we've had an ancient in every box. Um because there was like a standard one um in Tactical Armour in the in eighth edition. In ninth edition we got the Blade Guard Ancient. Maybe in 10th edition we actually didn't get one, but we did get a standalone ancient for sure, like a multi-part kit one. Uh so this will be the fourth one, I believe, that they've come out with, excluding chapter-specific ones, because they did the ultramarines one quite recently. And also you've got the uh company command, also comes with an ancient. So I think if my math is correct, there's at least five plus ancients floating around. This one's cool, it's got Armageddon specific detail sculpted onto it. Um so the word Armageddon across the banner is sculpted in, as are these orc heads with the flames, uh, which I think is pros and cons. So I think if you are someone that loves the idea of theming it to Armageddon, that's great. If you are someone that didn't want the Armageddon theme, that's terrible, and you're kind of stuck with it, but it's easy enough to probably at the very least with the Armageddon, you could easily just fill that in and then freehand something else on. You are still kind of probably stuck with the orc skulls, uh, I think, but you could probably cut those off or something. Uh, but and as I've already said, there's already another a dozen other, half dozen other ancients floating around. But I think it's just a really dynamic pose. So I do like it. And again, separate helmet option uh for it, and then the uh they specifically called out the big circle below the double eagle is plane for transfers to go on, and likewise the sort of iron halo at the top, um, where they put the company number in or squad number in, that's uh plane as well. So lots of space to do stuff, basically. What what are your guys' opinion on it? It's a cracking banner.

SPEAKER_04 41:55

Yeah, it does look good. It's not for me, there's not much more to say to it. You hear everything on on the head about it. Um again, it's another like pose with like a lot of dynamic um and visual effects applied to it, which is quite nice, and it's different from the other ancient that we've seen. Um I am, as you said, with the pros and cons of having Armageddon sort of engraved in, it does obviously make writing out the word a lot easier, but I'd still like to have that choice in my mind. I think what would have been a nice little touch is maybe if you could uh have it flattened out, uh sorry, filled in, um, but then actually have the the transfer for the word Armageddon.

SPEAKER_05 42:41

Yes, yeah, that would be good.

SPEAKER_04 42:44

At least yeah, at least that would be give people the option to put it on there or not. So people who have difficulty painting these details or just don't want to can still theme their army around this current edition's uh campaign of Armageddon or just do what they want. Print out their own custom transfers.

SPEAKER_05 43:03

True. Richie, what do you think of uh the mini?

SPEAKER_00 43:07

I have a strong opinion on it. Which is uh good. Which is with one change I think it'd be very good, but as it is, I don't like it at all. Okay. Because I can't get past the fact that the banner itself appears to be defined gravity and it's held at a 45 degree angle and is not falling downwards in a 45 degree angle.

unknown 43:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 43:32

So I I'm looking I I've so if I so I you'd have to watch in my opinion, to make this actually good is you need to just cut the at the wrist, rotate the rotate the wrist slightly a bit, so it's it's so it's angled slightly more upright, and then it's great. As I think he's I can't I can't not see the fact that even if he's swinging it round, like like waving it forward, well I think he's just picked it up, basically.

SPEAKER_05 43:58

He's like mid picking it up and doing a heroic thing.

SPEAKER_00 44:01

It should be it to me to me it just doesn't look right. It doesn't look it it doesn't feel like it's part like it's it doesn't feel like it would be in that it it feels like it should be it's it's fabric.

SPEAKER_05 44:12

It should be Because if you look at the back you can see the folds and how it is sort of bunching up with gravity although you don't necessarily really notice that from the front per se.

SPEAKER_00 44:23

It's bunching up where he's like gr holding it with his fist. Yeah. He's holding it with his hand like that so that you can see his face behind it. Well exactly because if it just fell was falling down it would be in front of his face and but the other side where he's not holding it I don't for me it feels like maybe it's meant to be that he's like swinging it round and that's why it's that way but it doesn't quite give that vibe to me so I would want to rotate his wrist fair and make it look a bit better. And on the well otherwise otherwise other other than that I think it's cool the details are fantastic. It's just the angle of it that feels a bit odd. Right. And I I would add on the on the topic of it saying having an Armageddon written on it I did just realize I I think it would be cool if there was ways to customize that so it doesn't have to be Armageddon I'm I'm assuming there'll be an alternative version in the pipeline as well which doesn't have that. But I I did realise it's kind of interesting that it's weird that it would be an Armageddon banner at Armageddon.

SPEAKER_05 45:21

Well it's a I I guess it's so you saying in in military terms you would get a kind of campaign banner after the campaign rather than before.

SPEAKER_00 45:31

I mean I don't know the logic behind it but maybe oh just in my head if you were like because if because well the banner would it the banner would be for like the your regiment your detachment where people to talk about the the the things you have done and then celebrating the fact they I mean is it if unless it's referring to a previous battle of Armageddon and that's what it's like it's like yeah don't it's like it's meant and it's meant to be hey don't you remember us we kicked your asses before and we kicked if that's the vibe for it then that's cool.

SPEAKER_05 45:54

If it's like the if it's meant to symbolize this current campaign of Armageddon it's like guys you haven't won yet well yeah but so they've all got campaign badges on them like in I think some of it is sculpted that we see here I think the the left sort of uh of the three legs of the banner I think that's the campaign badge that we see also as transfers on the models and sculpted on some of the wrists and stuff on the legs on some of the models and we had that with the Indomitus campaign the Indomitus box had Indomitus campaign badges on them. So I think logically if they're given a campaign badge to wear during the campaign I guess they've also done a special bad sorry this special banner for them for that particular campaign and they're like oh cool we get to go to Armageddon which means we get to wave the new flag around uh I mean that's good motivation for any space marine I would have thought um who doesn't like collecting trinkets and badges and flags and stuff yeah um I I could see people getting behind it but uh yeah I can agree with that I mean in an ideal world what you would have is as uh Tim pointed out either the Armageddon word would be a transfer or maybe the banner itself like the scroll piece would be a separate piece and maybe you could have like five different alternatives and likewise the campaign graphic underneath you could have alternatives so you could do the five most popular campaigns within 40k and you could swap those out to your heart's content maybe um I don't necessarily think they would do that and I don't think they would do another ancient because we already have a multi-part ancient kit so I don't think they would do that. It is interesting that they are now sort of forcing all the Mark 7 helmets on us because um if you liked your primaris uh Mark 10 helmets um you've got basically all the characters uh this one only seems to have a Mark 7 option um which I I don't know how I feel about that um but then I've got enough spare Mark 10 heads it's not a problem to just swap it out for it looks a fairly it looks to be a fairly standard helmet is like you could put any helmet yeah I think I think so um but it is interesting there like you you like Mark 7 don't you have a load of Mark 7 everyone just just just take it you you don't get a choice with like forcing it down you we're gonna make you like it.

SPEAKER_00 48:26

Speaking I think I don't think Mark 7's being forced on anybody from my opinion I think everyone I I think logically everyone should be happy that Mark 7 has returned.

SPEAKER_05 48:34

I think most people are to be to be fair.

SPEAKER_00 48:36

I think there'll be others who have grown up with the newer edition the newer armor or just really like that style armor.

SPEAKER_05 48:42

But for me there's something beautifully nostalgic about the Mark 7 for me it's the re it's a real space reading helmet and that's just why is I've always thought the kind of grill portion always looked a little bit silly um whereas the kind of current helmet looks more in keeping a bit more I don't know serious um but then I I kind of like the grill because it is iconic as well to be fair um but yeah now now we're on to the the meat and potatoes the most boring thing ever but actually it is still quite cool um which is the new updated intercessors um which I don't know how people feel about this because yes it's great that you get um different options now so you get your Mark 7 helmets you've got as you can see here it's some very cool uh uh I don't even know what mark this is but a different torso design um and it's cool that you get all those different variations but as I was saying to Dan yesterday I already own 40 intercessors uh three of sorry 30 of which are all painted up because I got scammed with the concept of building out different weapon options so I've got one unit of stalkers uh two of the regular bolt rifles and I was building a uh veteran intercessors when that was a thing with the auto bolt rifle version is worth noting that in this kit they show off uh there's one stalker and one auto bolt and all the rest of the standard bolt rifles um so they've still got that variation and part of me suspects one of the reasons why they might have felt the need to redo the kit is that those old Insta kits had all the different weapon options for the different patterns of bolters and that's not replicated in the rules so it's probably a very confusing thing for a new player um and sort of just pointless. So they've gone cool well we can swap out all that space now for cool variations and stuff like that. So the guy with the chainsaw who I'm assuming is a sergeant looks very cool again on a mini tactical rock but that's he's he's got his little campaign badge trinket um hanging down his waist and I think also maybe the transfer um I can never remember what these uh side shield bits are on there on his waist but that I think is the actual campaign badge in terms of the transfer as opposed to this thing which is maybe a campaign trinket. But yeah over the top on the purity seals uh for this guy uh and then if we go through them uh guy with a pistol guy with the uh underslung grenade launcher uh minus the uh grenades uh bandolier uh here's the guy with the stalker bolt actually looking through the scope which I think is very cool uh guy changing his uh ammo which I think was the one that they previewed uh earlier a few weeks back uh guy with a knife just a standard guy on a mini tactical rock uh auto bolt rifle all spec scan uh which are all really cool poses I have to say uh and then a guy throwing a grenade and that's just some more close up detail so I do like all the different options I think the poses are actually really cool I think the the sort of a lack of too much detail is quite nice. I don't know they're definitely better than the current kits or maybe I'm just used to the current kits but I don't feel the the desire burning desire to build these because I've got so many as it is but uh yeah Richie give me your hot take on these well you know I am the first person to always say I've painted too many Space Marines but if I was gonna paint some Space Marines I would paint these ones because they because what's cool about these is as someone who has painted a lot of space marines what gets boring about painting space marines is they're all the same.

SPEAKER_00 52:40

And what's cool about this at least with this current set which is all they're all push fit and they're all it they're all individual every model's different so I think we get ten in this in the box and all these different and I'm I'm assuming you can like swap the heads around a bit to get a little bit of personalization. But they look cool and some of them have got different shoulder pads or different leg pads so it's not if you're painting these each count one has a lot of character to it and it's not very monotonous. So I think that's cool.

SPEAKER_05 53:05

I like that yeah I like I think it's potentially five models with alternates because if we look at this guy here with the grenade and his um torso I think he's the same one as this guy same torso same leg position but then different arms basically uh so I think there is some repetition in terms of the bodies I suspect but obviously different shoulder pads this one's uh almost like the uh was it is it Mark Four the Corvos one the uh Corvos um pattern where there's no trim on the shoulder pad um uh yeah no Mark 6 Mark 6 yeah that's it uh so yeah that I like the mix of other shoulder pads as well um but yeah I sort of suspect there might be a bit of repetition in the the torsos I could be wrong but I think it is the same one but with different I think you're right I think there's a couple that are similar but I I think they all all of these look like individual guys yeah for sure and I think that's cool and I do I do think you've got to let it go about the different bolt bolts still because here's the thing and the reason the reason I say that in if all with the most freaking world I don't think you realise how long ago that was that was a lot that was a long time ago that they it was two editions ago yeah two editions ago which is six years right yeah it's a there's a long time ago that I I was there too I'm I I did that same thing I I built uh I remember building Imperial Fist with the assault but with the assault bolter because all the all the DACA but it was useless to run because it had no AP and there was the stalker bolt where I thought it was a very brief meta until they fit until something got patched to make them not overpowered anymore. Yeah but here's the thing I don't necessarily I'm not really advocating that those rules come back although there was an element of crunch to them but then I hated the fact that I felt inclined to do them WYSIWYG even though no one else was really doing that. But I and I quite like the fact that they've consolidated them and now they're just a mixed they're mixed in within the units and it's not like one squad just full of them for example um of one particular type. So I like that they've shown us they've kept them all in here basically so I think that is better. I think that the way they've done it here is really good.

SPEAKER_00 55:27

I mean I I don't like the way I mean I do I do like the visual element to it. What I do what I find conf I I've been conflicted that so far this edition rules wise is that and it started in the previous edition as well I think that the rules of the bolter has to effect effectively use all types of bolters into one. So it's it's both heavy and it's assault. Yes. Um I felt made them a bit too good and that there's nothing they couldn't do.

SPEAKER_05 55:51

But that's what we're not talking about that day we're talking about the minis and I think the minis are very cool and I think I think these I actually think these are very cool especially if you're just starting out space marines these are the best looking space marines that's possible there's probably ever been this this is the these are better looking than all the in all the intercessors have been these I completely agree yeah it I'm just less encouraged inclined to want to build and paint them because I've already got another ten still built ready to paint that I feel like I would have to deal with first. To be fair though I was converting them up to be veterans so um at least they could be something different but currently rules wise don't really have anything to represent them. But these guys are really cool and I like the mix of different armours um and as you say that means it's going to be a lot more visually interesting when you're painting them up and they do look more yeah each individual space marine looks more like an individual rather than a sort of boilerplate very generic space marine and I think that was the one thing that people were really criticising primaries when they first came out is that they were just a bit too bland. And I don't mind like these are sort of bland in terms of um they don't have too many adornments on their armour. There's the odd purity seal and the odd trinket but then even the standard intercessor kit had that as well but it was all the shoulder pads were the same all the helmets were the same you know this guy's got some rivets on his helmet and a different mark of shoulder pad. Some of them have the sort of kneeless uh legs I think um and some of them have some almost like sort of crusade I think maybe it's here Mark II crusade style um torso pieces and stuff. So I do like those sorts of elements to them and I think the posing of all the minis are really cool as well so yeah I think it's very strong. Oh one thing I'll point out because it's here uh I do not think this is at all accurate or appropriate uh where you've done a kill marking as a bullet design and you've embossed it into your um into your gun that makes no sense logically whatsoever has this guy literally chiseled out some bullet shapes into the side of his precious relic weapon uh I don't think so uh from a painting point of view yes I get it but I sort of feel like that could have just been a transfer that you you could have applied uh that my one nitpick on this kit I would say um yeah Tim what's your um thought on these guys um it kind of irks me that the grenade launcher hold is the same size as the barrel hole hold on let's go find them I I I I was taught on that as well Tim because it's so pedantic I love it it it isn't it isn't go back because I didn't want to bring it up because well no I didn't want to bring it up I thought I had thought about when I saw it was like oh that was odd.

SPEAKER_00 58:51

Oh yeah but then you when you realize how big a grenade so I don't know if they've drilled it that whoever did the minis drilled it that way or if that's how it just comes on the kit.

SPEAKER_04 59:01

But usually but a bolt uh like a bolt a shell is huge it's like the size of a grenade shell is huge but in the scale of uh Warhammer 40k you would imagine that a grenade shell would be bigger just ever so slightly I am being really pedantic and facetious about this it doesn't bother it's not it doesn't bother me at all it's just something I noticed yeah I think here's the thing you could easily drill yours out ever so slightly bigger. Yeah easily but that is quite funny yeah easily um I'm just hoping that the legs I know it's a push fit kit but with they or when they release this as an individual kit uh you're able to maybe take the old leg greaves uh from the old intercessors kit and slap them over the top I want my knee pads back well there there are knee pads here or was it more not on all of them Phil not on all of them well that's true I try to remember if they said they said the shoulder pads were attached so you are stuck with the shoulder pad basically oh I see what you mean here.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:04

Yeah is think what you need to be good at is very good at um you know scraping in a panel line with a knife or a chisel that's what you need to do in in I suspect it would all be all be one in one to be fair I I think in the standalone kit you you'll get options and the shoulder pads won't be like forcibly stuck on because everybody would just complain.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:30

But yeah I I think it's a pretty cool in intercessor kit as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:36

In as well in the interest of history in historical fairness and I've I have shared this in the chat for you guys the the holes of the auxiliary grenade launcher have all uh on the current intercessors are the same size as well. Oh well there you go that's a that's a it's it's a very I mean I'm not I'm not I'm not saying I disagree with you Tim at all I think it's a I I actually I do agree it should it it it should look a bit different but that is historically how it's done. One thing I I additional thing I do want to say is cool is it's nice to see a sergeant in like the official default sculpt who hasn't been who hasn't been res reduced to being a chainsaw and a pistol guy. It's like he's got his bolt rifle and he's got his chainsword which I don't believe I've seen before at least so prominently and I think that's cool because you'll all because whenever you've got the the sergeant will always have in gameplay terms that at least more recently um back in the day the sergeant wouldn't have had a bolt gun he'd have had a pistol um but in more recent times he has he has a bolt rifle as well it's like when when you're when you're 24 inches away you're firing 10 bolt rifles or or with a squad of incestors um and when in combat you're using the chain sword so I like the fact he's got that he's got like chain he's got a close combat weapon in this and one as in a any close combat weapon or close combat weapon being its own profile etc but he's got a close combat weapon and he's got his bolt rifle and he's a sergeant so I think that's a I think that's a cool um thing that that that we're seeing there.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:57

That's true. And you're again you'll notice his purity seals were stuck on slightly sideways. Because the wind's blowing Phil but they're because that's the way the wind's blowing yeah um okay well that well they're pretty good um oh and my other uh favourite unit uh the eradicator squad with heavy bolters um so I guess there's a few interesting things to say here um one is will they be a separate uh data sheet because they are uh or then the standard eradicators with the multi-melters uh so will it be eradicator squad and then there's different weapon options or or is each one going to be a different uh data sheet which possibly the case um and then the other thing is the blast shield that they all have I I'm so on the fence about whether I like it or not. I don't like it. Because I uh because they have already done heavy bolters on gravis models already with the heavy intercessors um they don't have the shields on and they look really cool here I don't necessarily I don't hate it because it actually ties in with the inceptors uh which have like that similar blast shield so it ties it in with another gravis unit so I sort of like it but this uh unit fundamentally shows you the floor of them other than in that it's a big ugly uh blank space uh that they have literally had to freehand detail on to make it look interesting because it's kind of ugly. So here they've done some checkers and then on the other one they've done like a big uh oh that one's actually plain and I think one of them they did like a four cross uh on it maybe it was on the sergeant but they've had sort of had to paint some detail on and it just seems sort of weirdly odd and it looks like from like the back the the heavy bolters just magically going through a wall it just always looks a bit odd. And they had a similar issue with the heavy bolt or the bolt as bolt pistols whatever they're called on the um inceptors um but I've sort of grown that that's sort of grown on me over time um but yeah it's an interesting kit I think it's very cool I know we'll start with Richie because I know he has an interesting opinion on this particular model which is the sergeant where he's um either run out of ammo and he's chucked uh you can see the clip is on the ground and then he's got his bolt pistol out to do a heroic last stand and Richie you take offence to that don't you I think it's the stupidest pose I've ever done of this variety they've done it a couple of times about the units where the sergeant's got his pistol out I think on the hell blasters they do something similar this just looks to me this just looks a bit dumb because he's got his because he's got this big he's got his giant heavy bolter and I play space meme I've played space meme too I play a lot of space move too this can happen if you're playing the heavy bolter if you've got the heavy bolter it's like I think the fact that he's like he's like holding it he's like cradling it with one arm the what why he's he's he's dropped the um ammo clip on the floor he's cradling his heavy bolter with one arm and using his pistol with the other it just feels a little bit weird I don't think it I I don't feel it was necessary.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:14

I think they could have done something more interesting to differentiate like I see I understand they would they wanted to do something to differentiate the sergeant from the rest of the squad from the rest of the squad. I get that it just feels a bit weird to me that in that he's got his giant gun that he's like holding like a a baby and he's got his pistol out I just think that's a bit silly.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:34

I I I I sort of get your point and I think it is reasonably valid criticism that they've done a few times. It's kind of a cool and interesting pose at the same time but at the same time I think I'd rather have a squad of three guys all shooting their guns and using for example he does have the skull on the helmet that is what is there to denote him as a sergeant I don't feel like they constantly need to show him using his alternate Weapons to make it very obvious that he's a sergeant, um, but maybe from a gaming point of view it does make it a bit more obvious.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:07

If this was if they just literally just took the designs for Space Marine 2, uh they could have put a hat you'd have a carry handle on top of the heavy barbers be holding it, he'd be like holding it like a briefcase.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:17

Oh, yeah, because there is like a little handle up here, I assume, which is well, maybe that's not a carry handle. That's much more than a farming handle.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:24

It's more for steady it's for steadying it in the other thing. Yeah, maybe it was like holding it from a from on top of it, like it's a like a briefcase or something, um, with the shell on the floor, and he's got his pistol out, so it's clear it's like he's had to he he can't use his manga because the clip's empty, or he's halfway through reloading, so he's got the pistol out. This one just feels a little i I um it it's weird to me that it just looks it just looks a bit weird to me. Um and that's my that's my big bug bearer of it. I I will before I hand over to Tim, one thing, uh two things I want to say because you're talking about the different data sheets I did, Phil. I suspect it will be because these guys have got the little targeting thing, or there is a uh there is a word like all specs array or something. Um because I know that some of the uh some of the not the intercessors, the phobos um marines would have that, as does as does Tor Garadon. Some of the have it as well. It'll be some kind of like ignores cover or it'll denote some kind of rule, as well as having the the shield the blast shield on the heavy bolter. I think that will which I think is important to differentiate this from the heavy intercessors and the other eradicators.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:30

I think they will, and the fact that they've called I mean obviously I think uh it could be either way, they've called it heavy uh sorry, they've called it eradicator squad with heavy bolters, rather than just eradicate a squad and then mention that they come with heavy bolters. So yeah, it makes me think it will be um a separate data sheet and it will have its own special rules. Um because they did mention that um the these heavy bolters get blast when shooting, um, and I don't know if that's an ability or if it's just a weapon profile like baked-in rule. So we'd have to see, it'd be quite interesting. I do on this sergeant, I really like the sort of extra armoured, sadly for you, Tim, knee padless um leg greaves. I think that is quite cool, uh, which I haven't done on the others. Um that one's got the painted in uh detail. Um, but I do like it. Yeah, Tim, give us your thoughts on the um heavy bolter guys.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:30

Um I'm not keen on the blast shield. I just like having a heavy bolter as a heavy bolter. Um, because I kind of think of it as like an M249, you're running around with your big old Rambo gun just letting loose. Um, I don't actually have a problem with the pose because to me it looks like it's resting on his leg during uh kind of like an intermittent period of just firing off some shots with the pistol. Um but yeah, it's just the blast shields that irk me a little bit.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:59

Yeah, and I I think it'll be slightly annoying that if you were to cut it off, it would look odd because it's interfering with the detail that should be there, for example. Um, so I don't think it would look quite right just removing them either. Um, yeah, I think I would just keep them on but paint them in like a plain metal colour, which is what I think I've done with my inceptors. So at least it would tie in visually with them. I think as a squad, like conceptually wise, a unit of effectively like it's a gravis devastator squad, I think is really cool. Um, I think personally I'd rather have seen that than a uh heavy intercessor like tactical squad. I think that squad sort of feels really redundant and actually making the gravis armor be the guys that specifically carry heavy weapons and not have in the company command squad you've got a regular guy with a heavy bolt or a bit like don't do that. Just have gravis guys now with heavy weapons and they can sort of carry them around on foot, and having a squad of three of them I think would be really cool. It would be really interesting if they give us a multi-part kit, which so they get rid of maybe the new well, sorry, they get rid of the existing eradicator kit, give us a multi-part kit which has heavy bolters and multi-melters in, but also maybe potentially LAS cannons and plasma. Uh, that would be quite interesting, especially if it was all just one data sheet um uh with different weapon options, that would be an interesting way to go down. And this is effectively the new devastator squad. I think that would be quite cool, uh, conceptually wise for how they uh they how they handle things, but uh yeah, who knows what they'll do uh with them in the future. But I definitely would like to I I'd be out of most of the units, this is the one I'd be probably most keen to like build and add to my force first of all. Um, because I think it would just be good utility as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:58

Okay, is there anything else to say? Two uh just two other quick things. I think I I well actually, so I don't I don't mind the blast shield, I think it's I think it's cool. I think they have missed a trick um by not having it be belt fed into like some kind of ammo on the back ammo.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:15

That would be cool, yeah. Because that's like older Marines.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:18

I think they've it's worse like aggressors do that. I think they've missed a I think they've missed a trick doing that because then they would because then they wouldn't need to put the blast shield on to differentiate them from heavy intercessors, for example.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:30

True.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:30

So I think they missed a trick there. I also think it's daylight robbery that blood angels got to have a ha a squad of nothing but heavy bolters and not imperial fists. It's disgraceful and I'm as You should have got your boys over to Armageddon. As a long-term fist player, I'm very disappointed that the blood angels got to show off the heavy bolter squad before my boys did.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:54

That's understandable. But here's the thing, I think with the ammo feed, it will be quite simple. Um, well, uh it's simple for me because I have uh resin belt feeds that I make on my shop, beyond tabletop.com. Um and I've been I'd uh ages ago toyed around with a belt-fed bolter um for one of my like um veteran guys, uh, and it would work really well for this. So potentially if you could remove that uh heavy bolter clip and attach that to his backpack somewhere and then have uh a feed going round and in, I think that would actually look really good. Uh I might still might idea, Richie. I think that's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:32

Because you could you could even I mean, I don't know if people have like if you if you had spare aggressor kits um lying around, which you may do because I don't know people if anyone runs aggressors these days, but they they literally have a bolt gun. It's a the bolt gun.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:46

Yeah, like a bolt drum that comes out the back.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:49

It's literally got the drum on the back of the on the on the backpack, which goes to the art, which goes to the gun by the arm. Yeah, I think that's I I think that's I think that's a uh a missed opportunity they haven't done something like that, and I hope I I look forward to seeing community uh and yourself um provide um alternative ways of actually showing that because I think that would be really cool.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:09

Yeah, I think that'd be good. I mean to be fair, I think it still looks visually cool without it because I do like that big giant uh drum that he's got, but I I know what you mean. I think it would look pretty cool with the I mean potentially I was like a limitation of the uh number of sprues and the fact that it's all easy build, that having something go around to the back would have been too much of a an extra.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:31

I'm all here for uh there being a belt fed like a belt backpack fed version in the forkit G-dubs. Make it happen. I I know you'd I know you would needed to decide that two years ago, but I hope you did. Um but my favourite one of the minis, as much as I I have very strong opinions about the sergeant, I do really like that they've got at least this is the first time I've seen them on like a butt on a heavy bottle bolter, like the shells coming out of the respect shells coming out.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:57

Normally only orcs get that cool thing, so it's great in the space when it's got that too.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:01

Yeah, that's true. I was gonna say it reminds me of the the in terms of the belt feed, one of the reasons why I like the Hellblast uh full kit is because the heavy um plasma rifle comes with like a bunch of cabling that goes to the backpack um rather than the smaller ones which don't, and I think actually that that looks much more interesting. Um so yeah, with that gravis out of the way, we've got the first vehicle, well first and only vehicle uh of the Space Marines. It's not a dreadnought this time, it is the classic land speeder uh brought back to life, um, which is interesting because we've had uh were they land speeder storms or storm speeders? Um I think land speederstorm was the Forge World variant, maybe, or a variant of a landspeeder, like an enclosed attack version of homework. Yeah, uh so this one's much more like the original, it's got that kind of much more slim line, much smaller, to be fair, than those uh landspeeder storms, um which is interesting. Uh but it's got the kind of the multi-melters not really, it's sort of manually being targeted by the guy as the gunner rather than it being sort of built into a weapon system. Uh, you've got the underslung uh Gallon cannon, which could also be a heavy flamer, I believe they've said. Uh, and then you've got the missiles. Um, I never know what these little pointy tiny las gun looking things are. I assume they're targeting sights, um, but they they almost look like parking bumpers or something. They just look a bit odd. I assume they're targeted as for like the missiles. Um, but yeah, overall it looks pretty cool. I mean, I don't really have much to say about it. Um, I think they also said though that there are two versions of this flight stand. So if you didn't want um to mount it with the smoke, you don't have to, I think is something they said. Um so I don't know if there's another way of mounting it um to uh to the base. Uh but I thought that was interesting as an update. Um, and then yeah, looks looks pretty cool. I think it's interesting they've given us a smaller version of the land speed. It's it's that classic thing Games Workshop do, where they give us rather than just redo this in the first place, they give us a slightly different variation of it that's then new for us to buy. And then once we all have that, they go, Oh, you can have this old thing again. And now they're finally giving us this one. And it feels like uh my worry would be that this is a replacement for those, but I don't think that's the case, and it's instead that's like a heavy version of this, and I think that's the way you've got to look at it. Uh, this is much more this is like the uh the you know, the general the the bikers to the ATV, for example, and the with the ATV being the last speed of storm, um so much more mobile and lightweight, and probably more game friendly in terms of you know the amount of terrain and stuff like that on the board. Having smaller vehicles is probably a preference uh or general direction, maybe that Game Talkshop is moving in. Um, but yeah, it does look pretty cool. Yeah, they say down here, Richie, all the models are push fits. Um, yeah, what what are your guys' take on the on the land speeder?

SPEAKER_04 1:17:23

Do you want to go, Richie?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:24

Or uh I I yap so much about the other ones. You go ahead now, Tim.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:28

Okay. I I really like it. Um I I think it's great to see kind of like an iconic model come back to life and be reimagined. I there is a part of me that wished that it was the new Outrider kit that was supposed to be rumoured. Um, because you know the the latest White Scar character that got released on like his hover bike.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:50

Yeah, that was very cool.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:51

It was rumoured that this edition was gonna be the addition of fast attack, I think was the phrase used. Um, but saying that, I I've always loved a land speeder. I I just think they're super cool. I don't know why they I I just love them. And when the storm speeders came out, I was like, uh it's not it's not quite a LAM reader to see what you're trying to do, but yeah. Um yeah, I think they did a good deal.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:20

This still falls under fast attack, and obviously, this is just the launch box, so there might be more Space Marine releases to come out when the Space Marine Codex comes out. So you might see something like uh new Outriders or new um Grav outriders or something. That would be quite interesting. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:41

I hope so. I hope so, because that news White Scott characters bike is just gorgeous. It's super cool, super cool.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:50

Richie, what's your your take on that?

SPEAKER_00 1:18:52

I think it's awesome. I think it's really cool. I struggle at this point, I struggle to see the point of the storm speeders with this in play. Because this has got a multi-melter, an onslaught gatling gun, and or what they call a heavy flamer, that's the biggest heavy flavour I've ever seen. That's like that's like a double barreled heavy flamer. So I don't know how if that how that's gonna how that's gonna work, but it looks cool. Uh I d the bump the weird bumpery things you mentioned, Phil, they they confuse me too. Because they look like they look like my first Laz guns that have got like the s like a safety cap on the top or something. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's it's kind of odd, so maybe there's some kind of like rule for something that they have.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:32

Maybe I I I don't know if they were on the original. I sort of wouldn't be surprised if they're the targeting array for the missiles, because obviously you've got two of them. Um so it could be something like that. Um that's a good point.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:48

I don't think the OG O the the really old ones had something like that, but I wonder it's the kind of thing like if you don't have some kind of scanners on the front, maybe that's what that's intended to represent.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:57

Yeah, I think maybe it it's odd because you've obviously got the two different bits which sort of looks very it looks like an upside down las gun, basically. Um, but that sort of flat I assume that's just a flat lens, basically. Um and then who knows what that extra bit is, but yeah, widgets and and gubbins, uh basically. But it's a cool um mini. Um yeah. And that is it for the space marines, um, and I think they're just showing you some different um yeah, different colours in terms of the um colour schemes for how it could potentially look. Um what are people's thoughts overall of uh space marines?

SPEAKER_04 1:20:44

If I if I take off my very specific narrow view to what meets my needs, I think it's a a good way to get into space marines. Just in general, if anybody wanted to jump on like Mohammed 40k and start a space marine army, I think this would be a good start because it's roughly probably around 700, 750 points worth of bottles there, give or take. And I think it's a lovely range that they've put together. Yeah, that's fair.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:16

And uh Richie, what's your opinion?

SPEAKER_00 1:21:18

I can't say anything more than what Tim said. I mean it it's this it's this is a great starting point. The only thing that looks almost a l that feels slightly odd potentially is the land speeder because it doesn't necessarily in some ways doesn't it I I it doesn't fit, but I suppose it goes with this this like the jump pack speed and moving to the jam pack stuff, so it could it kind of works with them. Um that's like a minor quibble there, but I think it's they're they're space marines, they are in in some ways the uh uh least offensive or the least pushing the boundaries. Because I know like la last edition of like they were like trying something more out there stuff with the minis or they get here's a squad entirely with flamers. Um aren't you gonna love that? And things like that, that whereas this time it's like very more back to back to basically it's playing it very safe, right?

SPEAKER_05 1:22:09

Because a bunch of these are just new sculpts of pre-existing models, like the um the the chaplain on jump pack, the vanguard veterans is all old kits being redone as primaris, the land speeder is the same, the intercessors is a redo of an existing primaris kit. Um, so in terms of like new models, like even the captain in relic shield is is a is a redo effectively of an existing model. So I I could see why for a lot of people it's a bit lackluster or it's not very exciting. Because it's basically the eradicators with heavy bolters is like the new unit out of this kit, right? If we just quickly scroll back, let's just remind ourselves. Um obviously we've had an ancient before. But but I think when you take into account who would who the opponent is in this, yes, I I I think uh these are all really strong models, uh, but I can understand why some supposed meaning players is like, oh, where's my cool stuff? Because the only really exciting thing I think is you know, potentially the captain, but it's mostly for me at least, it's the eradicators with heavy bolters, because that is a brand new unit. Um but they're all strong, they're all really good. It's all a bit meat and potatoes. Like this is, as you said, Tim, is a great starter army for space marines. Uh, but I just don't think it's necessarily a great, it's not like an auto-buy for a existing space marine player, potentially, because a lot of them might have some of these things already. I mean, in theory, if you're a longtime space marine player, you've already probably converted up a unit of Vanguard um marines already, for example. Um, but I think these are still worthwhile models to have in your collection. I think it would still be worth getting, and you will get use out of them. Um so yeah, I don't think there's anything wrong with them. But yeah, probably you already own a previous librarian, for example, and you're gonna you you probably won't own a chaplain for with jump pack, for example, but you probably have a few of the others. You'll have the ancient, you'll have the interceptors, not interceptors, um, intercessors. Um, but you probably won't have uh got a land speeder uh unless you were was it uh Richie, correct me if I'm wrong. Was it you or Dan that was gonna do the land speeder army when they were dirt cheap in combat patrol?

SPEAKER_00 1:24:39

Who do you think it was? It wasn't me. It's okay. I do think I was planning to do a an Imperial Fist like half of my army be Imperial Fist scouts in the land speeder of the scout version. The scout version, because I bought two of those and then like a month later they legends them.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:58

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:58

So I'm gutted about that. But they were cool. No.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:01

They were cool models. I liked it with the scouts hanging off the sides. I thought that was very cool. Um if they did uh that I mean maybe at some point they'd do a version of that again, uh, which would be quite interesting to see. But personally, I I like this more classic uh style land speeder, I think, overall. But yeah, it it is a good set of minis, but I can understand why people are a bit like it's just not super exciting. Um especially and we get on to it next, is um yeah, in comparison to the orcs, they're not quite as exciting.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:32

I for the reasons you think it's not it's not exciting, I think it is I think it's really cool. Because I think that if if you it with that, this is like a new edition, this is a new box to get to be a big exciting moment for the game. If it was entirely if if the if the hardest of hardcore players who were buying everything already are saying uh and it's and it's if it's for them primarily, I don't think that's a good like starter box. I don't think that's necessarily a good starter box. It's obviously it's great you want to be appeasing both audiences, but to have something if you're an existing pl space marine player and you're like, oh I'm not gonna buy that box because it's got it because it's not got enough new stuff for me. It's not no it's but it's it's not necessarily what it's not necessarily for you primarily. You're one of the audiences for this pro for this new edition, is to get new like newer players in general into the game as well, have a as well as having um a system of miniatures for existing players say, Oh, that here's a reason for me to get into this too. So I think if so because that's uh that's because it's got like the models you may already have, or you or to put it in this perspective of it's another squad of intercessors, I've got loads of intercessors. If you haven't played before, or you're new, you need intercessors, you need a captain. There's a lot of mod miniatures in there which as a space wing player you'll already have. But if you're wanting to play for the first if you're saying I'm gonna start doing space moons again now, or I haven't done space moons before, I want to get into space moons, this is a really, really good set.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:05

Oh yeah, it's a great sort of starter set for Space Moons. I can see what I suspect is maybe what's gonna happen is it's tricking a bunch of Space Moon players into buying the box to then convert them into being orc players. Because that's where I feel I am at the moment with this, where I'm like, oh, for Orcs, they look really good. Um is there anything else uh you guys want to say, Tim or Richie?

SPEAKER_04 1:27:29

Uh I I actually have one more thing to say. Maybe two. Uh the first thing is like there's no mention of Primaris anywhere in the article, right? That or is that just my imagination?

SPEAKER_05 1:27:40

Uh I think you could be right, but I sort of feel like um in with the the onset of Leviathan, they kind of stopped using Primaris as a differential. Um so I think they've that's been slowly phased out for a while now, and they're just space marines. Okay.

unknown 1:28:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:01

And that was their second thing.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:02

Yeah, the only reason I bring that up is like I I guess I guess keep your eyes peeled for more phasing out of like pre-existing models. Uh for example, we touched on the storm speeder recently. Like, what is the purpose of that going to be? And GW have no qualms in acts in recent kits.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:21

So yeah, I mean I sort of hope that they will keep both in. And in this photo, you can see um one of those uh land speeder storms in the background. So I potentially they are going to be two different sort of size variants. So you could do like a if you're a White Scars player, you may want to have both types of land speeders for variety. Um, but as Richie pointed out, the new land speeder is still quite heavily armoured. It feels like it's got a lot of punch, so it'd be interesting to see the rules difference between the two. Um so hopefully those older, larger kits are still viable. And you're right, there will be probably lots of stuff going to Legends. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the existing firstborn stuff goes over to Legends, um, which has been speculated about loads, uh, both on this podcast and online and stuff. It it feels like it'd be a no-brainer for like the tactical marines to now go, um, and for Devastator Squad to go and things like that. Obviously, things like the Rhino and Land Raider, because they're so iconic, might stick around, but the some of the older vehicles might go. And I think that would potentially happen to other factions as well with older kits. Um so yeah, it will be if they get rid of any of the sort of Primaris era um units, that will be a bit shocking because they're quite recent. But there's a handful that I could mention that I would happily see in the bin, uh, like the ATV, like the Desolation Marines, um being the two most notable ones. I think the suppressors we haven't seen for ages because they're they're in like a they suffered from being in like a bundle sprue with other stuff. And similarly, I think like the Judicia and the Blade Guard style uh chaplain are all on like one big like command sprue, I think is how they call it now. And they're sort of stuck in this weird limbo world where they are still selling them, but they're so overpriced, like the access to get hold of them is quite difficult. Um so those might disappear at some point. Uh, and likewise, the I think the librarian, when they showed off the librarian helmet options, he's included on a sprue with a bunch of other stuff. So if they did sell the this parts of this kit at a later date, some of it is probably going to be all bundled together, which is interesting because when they showed off the orcs, I think it was either I think it was the it was either the pain boy or the weird boy, but one of them's on a standalone sprue. And I do find it odd that with these characters like the librarian, why they just didn't put it on its own sprue so they could sell it separately at a later date. Um but I guess sometimes they're like, well, yes, it's fine to just be this launch-only item, and that's the only time you'll get that exclusive sculpt, and then maybe later on it'll be a different version that's coming out instead. Maybe that's why. Um who knows.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:30

I think the reason they'll they'll keep it all on, they'll they'll put what one of the one of the things that's always great about these new editions that and the reason that a lot of people say, Oh, I didn't like it, we'll probably buy it anyway, is because they are incredibly good value for money.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:42

Yeah, for sure. Uh well it'd be interesting to see what the price of this box will be, but normally they're great value for money because you get so much stuff in them.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:51

Yeah, and they keep the cost down by by combining screws. That's that's that's one bit that's what I'll do that. Just to clarify, what clarify what I said that I don't know how the storm speeder fits in. I mean from a gameplay perspective. Like it's got the the like weapons-wise, it doesn't seem it weapons-wise, this new land speeder seems comparable. So I'm curious as to where the storm speeder fits in to the overall army. I'm not s I I don't think they're going to necessarily legend it because they're still actually sending it. The suppressor squad, which you mentioned and and uh doesn't exist, you can't buy it in any form. There's no I just I was just checking, yeah, it's it's not sold in any that squad it which is the lighter like the the intercessors in jump packs with the big auto auto autocannons, yeah. There's no there's nothing there there's no way to buy that from Games Workshop and I could at least on the website.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:41

Yeah, so if that because I I don't know if that was ever I think that was only ever sold in a it was a specific space marine box, I think that they launched just before they did the second space marine codex uh in I think eighth edition. Um just because that was when you got it was a a combo box of Space Marines and Chaos, and it was where you got the Chaos Venom crawler in um I can't remember what the name of the box is. I want to say it was like Vanguard or something, but it probably wasn't. Um there's Shadow Spear, I think it was. Shadow Spear, yeah, I think it was that. And that was the only time you could buy it, and then they did a subsequent separate release of that sprue with I can't remember what other units it came with. Um, but that was the only way to get it. And yeah, I'm not surprised it's not on being sold now. I suspect it's that that might disappear basically. I guess we'll find out in a few weeks' time or a few months whenever the spaceman codex comes out, I guess.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:44

We've not got long now.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:46

Yeah. It'll be exciting to see. Okay, well, with that out of the way, we'll move on to the orcs. Transitional noise. Alright, everyone, it's time for the orcs. Uh, so probably the more for me, the more exciting uh half of the box set. Um, let's start off with the war boss, um, who isn't the previously revealed multi-pose version. He's just a standalone version, but phenomenal mini. I think I'll be saying this about all the orc models pretty much. Um, I do like the sort of what feels like um Richie U of the Orc aficionado, so you can correct me if I'm wrong. I'll take that. Yeah. It feels like there's a slight design change to the orcs. It feels like they're much more hunched over and they've got sort of bigger torsos and smaller arms, um, which I actually really like the look of like the proportions of the orcs look like they've sort of been tweaked and finessed slightly, they're different from the older orcs, and they're they feel a bit different from the beast snaggers. Like I feel like there's been a bit of design evolution to these guys. Um, I mean, I could be wrong, but uh for some reason all of these orcs I think look phenomenal in terms of how they look, and I never really felt like that with the previous orcs, uh, basically. Um, but yeah, back banners, that's great to see. Hazard stripes on cables, that's great to see. He's got like a sort of rotary power axe, um, or chain axe, maybe. Checker patterns everywhere, yeah. Checker patterns, which is quintessential orcs, yeah. And you've got your kind of your your uh orc icons as well, which is a very classic um piece. It does feel like in both in both portions of the box set they have done more retro uh nods and winks here and there with some of the design elements, um, especially with the orcs. So he comes with a custom shooter and a custom chopper, um, which sounds really good. And I think they said with his chopper, he gets effectively a blast style uh attack in combat as well. So the more people he's fighting with uh the more attacks he gets, which I think is is cool um uh uh to see.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:13

That is cool. I'm yeah, I'm curious as to um was it in '94, like the Orcs Codex, I forgot what edition that was, second or third. Uh possibly second still. They they used to have uh sort of all the symbols like uh laid out in the book and what they meant. Yes, yeah, they did. So it's nice to see those little patches back. They've probably been on other artwork on other models, but it's just nice that they're still there.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:42

Well, they they've sort of gone back to definitely a much more sort of square aesthetic, uh, especially like the um sort of the three patches on the banner, but also the ruin on top of the banner is much more squarer, which is very reminiscent of that second ed stuff. I think um they sort of lost that sort of form in later editions, and now they they've gone back to being much more square. Clearly, a human uh space marine, well not human, transhuman space marine uh skull because of the service studs on the banner as well. That's very cool. Uh yeah, Richie, have you got any well firstly your thoughts, but also do you think that Orcs design has changed, or is that am I just making that up?

SPEAKER_00 1:37:22

I think they're definitely going. There's a lot to unpack there, and my webcam is still messing up. You're just shrinking. You're shrinking every time. I don't know what it is. It just keeps in the corner. I'm just wait, I'm just gonna wait, let me just turn that off. There you go. I'm just I'll just be small instead of flying about it.

SPEAKER_05 1:37:43

I might be able to crop in on you on in the edit.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:47

Uh so where we're at. So it's like the the pose is I've I've been playing orgs for maybe five plus years now. Um a bit a bit a bit longer. So I'm not being like I'm not like compl massively long-term aficionado, but I've definitely been playing more than anybody else in our group. Um, I think they've definitely really leaned into the big like they've got like bigger shoulders in general. I think it's like the visual style of it. Because they've always been kind of hunched over, but they've gone I don't want to say like roided up, but I mean this guy definitely is because he's the he's the he's the war boss, but they're definitely more muscular in the shoulders, so it makes it more pronounced. Uh the visual, like the the I don't think they use do they use the word goth anywhere in here. They don't. Uh, which is interesting because the visually, this is like the goth the out of the goths, which like the black and white um squares uh is most normally associated with the goths. Well, the fact that's the iconic ones.

SPEAKER_05 1:38:46

Yeah, I think because they painted up the Marines as um blood angels, and they specifically said because the blood angels are taking part in the Armageddon campaign, uh, you know, it is a chicken and egg in terms of which came first, in terms of the narrative versus that they wanted red space means and not ultramarines, and therefore ultramarines weren't in the campaign. So likewise I presume the Goth orcs are the ones um uh actually taking part in the campaign because uh it was a bit we were going to skip over, but in the box is the transfer sheet, uh, and the transfer sheet does have a breakdown of some of the different orc factions. So Goths are in there as one of the transfer options. Uh so it might be they've selected the Goth orcs to be the subfaction that they're they've painted up the models in, but they've just not kind of obviously called it out because um it's not as obvious as space moon chapters.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:45

I mean, at least in terms of visuals, that's what they've gone for, which is every honest, I don't want to say everything that so much of this um edition is like uh trying to be uh revamping and nostalgic for second edition.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:00

In terms of uh visuals and at least in terms of visuals and the kind of the minis involved, so they've already gone for that. Uh I d I I feel that there's the orcs I from when I've been collecting since I started collecting orcs, I've really seen like a renaissance from in my to use an overly pretentious word for the orcs, in their visual stylings, which started with the um not even the beast snaggers. Although the beast snaggers is a really cool visual um route they went down, that's not what we're see that's not really what we're seeing in this uh set set. But it's like it's like a companion to this. What we're seeing, or I feel we're seeing here is um the evolution of the Gazco Frack, the new Gasco Fracker mini, of the Speed Freaks um minis, and of the well my what I thought was like the the the best set like set of minis they've had, and which I get I s I feel so much connected to this one is the is the what are they called the the Blood Axes ones.

SPEAKER_05 1:40:56

Oh the um the kill team.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:59

Yeah, the the Blood Axe Kill team, which I'm the commandos. Commandos, yeah. Everyone listens to being like, you don't know orcs, you can't remember the commandos. Those commando minis were awesome, and there's the the uh the personality of just like a bunch of British squaddies or or a bunch of British lads down the pub or of rugby players out on the on the Friday night. I was like, orcs that visual intensity was so great in the old commandos, and we see that here to the extent that and like this war boss mini, I mean the the the horns coming back, like orcs with like big horns on on their helmets. That's I thought that's a throwback, the big metal jaw again. That's a I feel that's a throwback. I love I I I think this mini is so cool. I as we as we were looking at it, I always find it I was thinking is it's hilarious that this orcs have hazard stripes. Like the orcs know what hazard stripes are, or do they? Do they know what hazard stripes are? Uh, because they definitely put hazard stripes on the cable.

SPEAKER_05 1:41:51

They might think hazard stripes makes it more dangerous. Exactly. Because that's what they think, well, that this chainsaw coming towards me's got a hazard stripe on, so we're gonna put a hazard stripe on ours to also make it killy. That I imagine is their logic.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:05

Yeah, which is which could be a bit, but I also like that the hazard stripe, the cable itself, if you look on the mini, is frayed, you can see the cable below it. Um there's so much. Yeah, like once you look at the when you look at the back of Space moves, you sometimes see is some like, oh, they've got some, and I've been playing Watch a little while now, so I love seeing all this stuff. You guys are probably looking at it much more closely for the first time. Um, or the first time in a long while with this edition and with these being revealed. But the the detail on the the back of the of this wallbox is uh is i insane.

SPEAKER_05 1:42:35

Like you've got this bullet belt, you've got this jerry can of who knows what's which of some kind of yeah, so was it like a jerry can of like petrol or something, which is then going through that cable into the yeah, well it's sort of the it's what the banner's like strapped to as well, and they've sort of made like the back banner isn't just mysteriously as if by magic stuck to the inside of his back, it's like actually strapped to this harness. Like you can literally see the stitches on his pants, you can see like the double belt buckle strap on his boots. It's like an incredibly detailed model, and obviously, you know, the spacemane captain was cool, but it isn't quite as brimming with detail, it has got detail in, but nowhere near as much as this guy's got, and obviously it's a much bigger model. Um, it's just yeah, phenomenal in terms of what it's got. Um, and I think I'll I'll put my pitch out, I'll I'll pitch my tent up here and basically say, I really want to paint these orc models. Well, I really want the orc models, and it makes me want to do an orc army, but then I look at the sheer amount of detail on these models and I dread having to actually paint them. But I would love in theory to just own them and maybe one day paint them. Uh so yeah, that they're they're beautiful enough that I want to own them and have an orc army and be an orc convert because I think all of these models are cool, but painting them just fills me with dread in terms of how much stuff there is on all of them, even the basic, like the orc uh the orc mob guys, when we get down to them, there's just so much stuff on them. Um, but they are phenomenally cool models. I would say, in a way, the downside of these models is they're so good, the older sculpts, even though the relatively newer sculpts don't feel like they stand up to the quality of these ones. Because the space means they fit alongside the space means the primaris is all primaris, right? Whereas these to me look visually a bit more distinct than the older new orcs. But maybe I need to go back through that orc range and actually see how different they are because they might not be that much different, but there's something about these which is is very cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:54

Um something else, something else that is kind of visually I'm getting the vibe of from these because it's hard to until you see them all like lined up together. There's a there's a handful of like group shots at the end of the the uh community article, so you can try and get in a con a sense of how big these are. But it feels like they've really gone for the idea that as orcs get bigger and stronger, they get bigger.

SPEAKER_05 1:45:19

Well, that was historically always the case.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:20

Well, yeah, yeah, oh yeah, well obviously we know that that's how the that works in the law, but then it's miniatures-wise, that wasn't necessarily the case because when it gets to the miniatures, um often the bigger more the bigger orcs were uh wearing mega armor, yes, and they're actually just the same size, it was it's actually more just a regular orc in a big suit.

SPEAKER_05 1:45:41

Yeah, because Gaz isn't like Gaz is big, but he's kind of big because he's in a suit as well, rather than because he's just a really big orc.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:49

Well, I think Gaz is still really big, but like the the pre- the the current like big orc is the war boss in mega armor because everybody had like a war boss manual like a like a for a little while now, um like a new a new sculpt for him. Um mega armor is huge, but he's also huge because he's wearing mega armor. This guy looks huge, and he's just and this is why I what it's look great that you can show they show you the whole mini you can see behind. He's just a guy in a vest. This is just like this is just a big muscular guy in some trousers and a s and uh and a beige vest that he's gonna go and have a fight over for some stuff, and he's huge, and I think that's brilliant. That's yeah, definitely get out there.

SPEAKER_05 1:46:31

Yeah, I th I I think I think you're right there. Um, because they did show off some of the models like uh the size comparison between them, because you see the York boys and you go, Oh, that looks really big, but then they put it next to a space wine and it's smaller, and you're like, Oh, okay, that isn't big, but then the Warwas is much bigger, for example. Um yeah, uh we realize we've left Tim have a conversation. So, Tim, please rejoin us and let us know your thoughts on this guy. That's okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:46:55

Thank you for bringing me back. No, um, I think it's a really cool model, but I agree that there is like way too many details going on. Um, I'll just say on an overall with the orcs, I I actually kind of wish that they expanded on the Beastnagger sort of range. Um, don't get me wrong, like these are all lovely and they are a nice little nod to second edition edition and hit that nostalgia button for us, which is probably the group that has all the money that's going to spend on this. Um just from a marketing point of view, I guess. But yeah, either beast, yeah, I I would have liked to have seen more beastnagers, but it is a cool model.

SPEAKER_05 1:47:31

Yeah, I definitely think that's like a cool subfaction that could be fleshed out a bit more.

SPEAKER_04 1:47:36

Um it's only because, like you, I wanted to do an orc force as well, but just the sheer amount of models you need, and now that all these models are just getting more and more details. Like I painted some boys a while back just as like a little painting uh palette refresh, and even I even felt like those had quite a bit of detail on them as well. And I was like, if you're gonna do this as a whore diamond army and you want to do it to like a nice standard, it's gonna say you ages, yeah. True.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:08

I was gonna say I don't necessarily think that you do the the I think it'd be cool to see some more stuff in the beastnaggers range, but the beastnaggers range is the is the is the one that needs the that needs the least help in terms of mod minis.

SPEAKER_05 1:48:22

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:23

I think Tim's like there is limit there are there's a limited amount of minis in there, so it'd be cool to see some more because they've got the beastnagger boys, they've got the pain boss, they've got the the pain uh the beast boss, they've got the um the squig riders, they've got the beast boss on the squiggasaur, and then there's the killwig. There's a there's a good selection of units in there, but it's like AOS levels of a good amount of units in the it's like enough for it in then it's there's not too many there. But then you've got the the speed freaks, there's loads of them now that um they you haven't I'm assuming there's new bikes coming um to round out that set, but what hasn't really been updated is the core orcs, right? Um the core like standard, if you will, orc stuff. I'm really excited to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_05 1:49:06

Because they've had a few because they've had a few war boss minis relatively recently, I feel like, or maybe it was a war boss in Mega Rama. Um then they've had uh the Pain Boy, I think, was maybe 10 years old now. So while it still sort of holds up, I don't think it's been particularly recent. So maybe uh it was the a general orc range refresh was needed. Um yeah, let's uh move past the war boss and see what we've got next, uh, which is the big boss. Um he looks very cool. So I'm guessing he's sort of lieutenant style character, I assume. Yeah, he's the second biggest, second strongest, toughest orc. Uh comes with a two handed big shopper. Uh yeah. So also looks cool, slightly less impressive, definitely a bit smaller. Um uh yeah, I don't feel like I've seen. One maybe I've skipped over this one somehow, but yeah, it looks alright. Definitely doesn't look as cool as the um the big guy, um, but still pretty interesting with the back banner, barnac eye, double-handed uh power axe, um, some kind of little uh squig critter on his base with a little womping tail, um, and yeah, some interesting back uh details as well. I love the sort of battery style um screws with the wires going it directly into the axe. That's quite uh fun little uh nod to yeah, some sort of ramshackle technology. Um that's good. Yeah, Tim, what do you think of this guy?

SPEAKER_04 1:50:42

Yeah, super cool. I am I'm not a fan of like the big double cow horns at the top, though. I don't know why. It's it's this is just a me preference. I I do think they look cool if I was just gonna take my put my designery hat on, but for me personally, I'm I'm not a fan of it. Um I do like the exaggerated jawline as well. I feel like that's pretty cool. He's got some very big teeth. He has got some very big teeth. You know, it's that's how you know he's odd.

SPEAKER_05 1:51:09

I I sort of feel like he looks more like a classic orc in my head in terms of the shape of his face and the size of his arms. And he's not, yeah, particular as Richard was saying, particularly like broad-shouldered. Um whereas this war boss is like a big inverted triangle, like with jumbo shoulders and arms. Um, well, sort of small arms, but like sort of jumbo shoulders. Um I guess you can't really see his face, to be fair.

SPEAKER_04 1:51:41

My question would be though, would you feel weird if you painted him as a bad moon? Does he suit the bad moon aesthetic? Because obviously bad moons are like flash gates, right? They their teeth fall out easily, and so they're the richest of all the cult orc cultures.

SPEAKER_05 1:51:58

Maybe you paint him up as gold teeth. So that you know, which is a bit paratical, but it's it basically implies that they have fallen out. I think it's more the armour.

SPEAKER_04 1:52:12

Yeah, but it's it's more the armour. I don't know why, but I feel like bad moons would have slightly different armour.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:17

Hmm, maybe.

SPEAKER_05 1:52:18

Well, she'll take Richie.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:20

I think this is one of the best minis in the whole in the whole all of the whole box. This is my favourite minis. And part part of that is down, I'm assuming down to the incredible paint job of like the sparks and the electricity coming out of the axe, which looks really cool. It look it gives me 90s heavy metal album cover vibes, which I absolutely love. I love that he's got a Vanguard beaky boy helmet hanging from his belt as like a in the idea that the space movie's like, we're coming coming back, and he's like, I remember you boys. Um but what I love about this particular mini is the contrast it does to the uh the other war boss to the tool to the actual war boss and a lot of the other ones, because the war boss is just like screaming, he's loud, he's running, he's coming at you. Whereas this guy is just standing there with a massive axe who's being like, Come on in. He's got there's like this which they haven't really had in uh they don't often have um in the many minis, but the idea that he's just like he just knows that he's got the biggest axe and he's gonna mess with anybody who comes near him. I I and I don't know if that'll be impact in um get to rules in any way for how he's gonna be how he works on the battlefield. But I think this is such a such a really cool model. I like that it feels slightly more understated um than the other stuff, and he's just like, I'm me, I've got this big axe, and I've got his giant cow horns on my back so that you so that you can tell from a distance that I'm the the boss. Um I'm wondering how tall he is without them on so if you didn't want to put them on him. Uh Tim from that perspective, but I think I really like the the cold confidence of this or kind of the way he's like how he's gripping that that axe. I think this is a really I just think this is a really, really cool mini for the orcs. It's nice to see a different kind of personal like a different kind of brutal personality coming through there.

SPEAKER_05 1:54:11

Yeah, and you've got like clearly some plain shoulder pads and sort of the belly plate uh torso piece to um do some free hand or transfers and stuff, and they've done obviously the checks. Um, and then on the back there's another symbol. So I think that's cool that they've kept some bit simple on this uh mini in terms of ease of painting up or an option to do some detail or transfers on them. And yeah. I I I sort of get what you mean, Tim, with the cow horns. It's like where are these alien cows that we never see um that are adorning these things. But I I appreciate that it's like a classic orc aesthetic in terms of back pat back banners. Um, so yeah I I like those nods to, you know. Uh one thing they haven't done with the space marine range is given us more back banners. They should have been doing that in this edition as well. That's a good point. But it is cool. Um, is there anything else to add with the to these guys before we move on? No. No, nothing. Okay, cool. Uh, next is banner knob. So going for back banners to standalone banners. Uh, this guy I think is uh really phenomenal. Again, interesting proportions, like the bandoliers, massive banner. Um, I don't know if that they currently have a banner knob guy. Is this like a new thing or uh an old thing? Obviously, Gretchen's uh carried banners before in terms of like um Macari, is it?

SPEAKER_00 1:55:39

And um so knob with war banner was an old mini that was a Forward World thing, or did there were rules for it in some in previous editions? Okay. But it's never been is there's not been like a other than Macari. There hasn't been like a view of the thing.

SPEAKER_05 1:55:54

I didn't think there was, but I think this is is is really cool. I like how they've also got the key power axes here with the sort of mad lightning uh effects on them. There's some minimal sculpted detail on the um banner, so there's a lot of space for transfers and stuff. Uh interestingly, there's some orc skulls on the banner as well, um, which I don't know if that's uh uh in reverence to them or or mocking them, maybe because they're rival orcs. Um but yeah, I love the amount of ammo that he's got on them. Just for general pose, um is this uh banner, Richie, defying gravity uh, or do you approve of it?

SPEAKER_00 1:56:38

This one I approve of. This one is clearly the wind is blowing in this one. This one works, this one, this one, this one fits. There's the the the the visual lines of how this works make sense. Fair, fair.

SPEAKER_05 1:56:53

The plume showing the direction of the wind, so it feels like it is just blowing, uh blowing in the wind.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:00

This guy feels like he's got he's reached the top of the mountain and he's planting the flag for the boss, yeah. And the wind's blowing in his squigger, in his squigger. It's perfect.

SPEAKER_05 1:57:09

You could almost line up the uh librarian to be blasting him, and he's like, whatever it's not doing it, I think. Uh I don't care. Um that's cool in terms of like the stitching detail on the back of the banner. More stuff to paint up, I guess, but actually that's quite impressive that they've thought about how things are being attached uh to things. Uh, what's your take on it, Tim?

SPEAKER_04 1:57:33

I really like it. I I think it's a super awesome model to add to like the orc collection, and it really stands out. Um, there's a nice strong dynamic pose that you're still carrying on like the little lightning uh on the axe, as Richie pointed out earlier, which is super nice. Um, obviously painted, and to anyone that does that, I doff my hat to you because that'll probably take you ages if you did it on all the axes. Um but yeah, it's it's a cool model. It really is probably one of my fave out of the York range.

SPEAKER_05 1:58:06

Okay, cool. Uh with that we go on to the pain boy, which is also a phenomenal mini. Uh comes with a little uh Gretchen guy with a serrated saw. Uh just orderly to use the correct terminology. Grot, yeah, Gretchen, I think, is uh an old second edition term.

SPEAKER_00 1:58:25

Uh no, no, it is it is a Gretchen, but the the it will be a quot orderly, and I I didn't even look at the screen look to look at the screen to do this because I have a quad orderly already.

SPEAKER_05 1:58:34

Uh fair. But yeah, this paint boy is uh really phenomenal. Has he got a peg leg? Yeah, he's got a peg leg. And he's got like some uh yeah, knife fingers uh as well. Um but whatever this weird weapon is that he's sort of looming over someone, I think it's very cool. Um yeah, he's sort of yeah, just a really interesting mini. Love the yeah, I just love the detail and love the sort of proportions of him as well. Yeah, it's a good it's a cool mini, and yeah, the grot uh extras. Uh very cool. Um yeah. Uh what what do you guys uh think about him?

SPEAKER_04 1:59:14

I don't like him. You don't? No. I I don't actually like him. I I uh it's just his pose that weirds me out a little bit, like him coming over the top with his uh med um medical device. It just feels a bit weird.

SPEAKER_05 1:59:29

He's a bit ampersand in terms of the sort of the pose that it's creating and the direction of it with the cable going around him. Uh so I get that. I mean it'd be quite interesting to see this one in uh uh 3D, I think.

SPEAKER_04 1:59:46

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I um I I think for me personally, I would have liked to have seen him maybe on a slightly bigger base and maybe dissecting either another orc or space marine. Just to sort of add a little bit more to it. Because they went all ham on the weird boy, which we'll get to later.

SPEAKER_05 2:00:05

So true, yeah. And what do you think, Richie? Are you fan?

SPEAKER_00 2:00:09

I quite I quite like it. It makes me think of uh it reminds me of the guy from How to Train Your Dragon, the one who's got the peg leg in that, the old um I think it's just a a very mad mini. I I don't I don't dislike it as much as Tim does. I think I think it's a it's a very odd pose, so I definitely want to see what it looks like in 3D. But I think I just like that he's like, come here, I got you. Like it's it's like medical implements. I think it's really cool. Uh I I like it. I don't know, I've put I think the Pain Boss I liked a lot. I I think I preferred the Pain Boss mini to be honest. I thought that was a cool that was a cooler mini, but I like this as as an as a different one, as an alternative. It's it's it's it's an it's a nice cool one. It's it it's an interest it's a different take on the on the pain boy. Because the pain boys has always been like characterised like got dot quats, they've got something like some big scalp with like some big scissors or scalpels. So I like the idea he's got whatever this injection gun thing is going on there, while also he's clearly been having to fix himself up.

SPEAKER_05 2:01:13

Yeah, he's got loads of stitch he's a bit of a Frankenstein with the amount of uh stitches uh on him and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 2:01:19

Yeah, because that what's what's interesting is whatever this weapon is that he's got, which has got like a neat syringe on the end of it, is connected to this big pack. Yeah. It's like a pack on his back, which in turn is connected to his spine.

SPEAKER_05 2:01:34

Yeah, I don't quite get what's going on in there. I presume maybe yeah, it's he's yeah, feeding himself some fluids maybe with it from people.

SPEAKER_00 2:01:45

But it's it's a good thing he's got his apron and his kind of cozy bottom, maybe.

SPEAKER_05 2:01:50

Yeah. It is a bit of an odd touch, but it's um he wouldn't want to catch anything. He he's an odd, creepy, creep, creepy model, that's uh for sure. Uh next up is one, Timmy. You mentioned the weird boy. Uh so why don't you start with telling us what you think about the weird boy?

SPEAKER_04 2:02:08

Okay, from a design perspective, I think it's mad. It is insanely crazy. It's it's great in that regard, it's completely different from anything else in the York range. Similarly, it's like the one I feel like that they've put the actually the most effort into.

SPEAKER_05 2:02:25

Yeah. It's got like quite a cool dioramic base.

SPEAKER_04 2:02:29

And I feel because of that the others are kind of missing out a bit.

SPEAKER_05 2:02:34

Yeah, I I I I feel like that's fair. I feel like this has got a lot more work put into it, and it as you say, it's a bit mad with all the sort of Medusa hair of the cables, but it makes the others, especially like the pain board, maybe look a little bit lacklustering comparison.

SPEAKER_04 2:02:52

And and that's the reason why it kind of irks me a little bit. It's I I think it's I think it's gonna be one of those models that are quite marmitey. Some people are gonna like it, some people probably hate it, as most cases with GW models. Um but for me, it's also just like the cables flying everywhere. I'm not a big fan of that personally. I know it breaks up the silhouette and you can easily identify it on the table, and the reason the design choice behind it might be because of that. Um, but for me, I guess I would have liked to have seen more mad lightning going on around, kind of thing, or throwing out a big foot.

SPEAKER_05 2:03:31

Yeah, because it sort of makes you go, well, what are these cables actually doing? Uh is it are they a conduit for his psychic powers? Is it like a psychic hood? Um are is it like dock-ock tentacles that he's controlling? Um it feels very technological, whereas what is he, a weird boy. It feels like it should be more because it's psychic, it doesn't feel like it necessarily needs technology to feed into it, but I guess that's the direction they've gone into it, right?

SPEAKER_04 2:04:05

I guess it's like the modern age of a their modern version of a shaman, right? Like where a shaman would have lots of little trinkets flying around their stuff and maybe a weird headdress, um kind of bringing Vikings back to my head where they had that weird crow man who was like blind and had a lot of things. And in terms of lore, as far as I remember, like weird boys used to work a lot better in a big group of oars because they'll they would just channel all the wild energy and then just unleash it. Um, so yeah, so it does get me wondering like why this guy has a specific kind of crown slash hood, as the word as the word you use, like similar to space marines. Um it kind of it it feels more to be like a very specific character than it does to be just a generic weird boy, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_05 2:04:59

Right, yeah. No, I can sort of see that, yeah. Um Richie, what's your take on the model?

SPEAKER_00 2:05:05

I'm torn on it because and I think part of the reason I'm torn on it because of the paint job. Because the like the the war energy or the water paint job, it's the the war energy, they visualize it as being basically pink.

SPEAKER_02 2:05:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:05:19

And I think that's what um jars me a little bit, especially when you look at the back of the mini where there's like a nothing. Like on the there's on the paint job. It's like there's there's like it's a bit bland at the back, and there's not much like real back real paint job of what's going on. Whereas in the trailer, I thought this model I thought I was expecting a lot more than I was expecting a lot more get green um energy and lightning going on. So I agree with Tim, it would be I I feel like it should be more lightning. Again, this might be a like when you see it in person, it could be a bit better, but it feels the if I feel the visual attempt the thing they want to go for is that there's energy rising up around him, and it's all that's why that's why all the wires are and cables are going upwards. It's because of this at this point, he's like a conduit for water energy, and he's doing that big blast from the trailer, um, which was like killing loads of people. So it feels like it's in progress, process of some kind of big um psychic attack, but it just feels a little bit conf yeah. Um there's a lot going on with it that I that I'm torn on. Because I do like something, I like the idea that they just strap loads of cables to him because you probably should do that because that's what that's what tech that's what the tech the librarians do. We should probably do something like that. Yeah, it could be just like that's it. What what do these cables do? Where do they normally go?

SPEAKER_05 2:06:36

Um yeah, that's a bit sort of ambiguous, right? Um because would they just be hanging down? Is it meant to be like hair? Um yeah, I don't know. It's yeah, it's interesting. I'm sort of a bit on the fence with this one, I have to say. It's it's kind of cool and concept, but maybe it hasn't quite pulled it off.

SPEAKER_00 2:06:56

Um, because I mean one thing because it's one one thing that I have noticed sometimes when they do these umbo when they present the minis in these fashions is that it's not always clear how large each mini is.

SPEAKER_03 2:07:04

Yes, true.

SPEAKER_00 2:07:06

Because my feeling here is that he's actually potentially scrawnier than say the the one the models we've looked at previously with like the knobs and the bosses. Because he the he has he shouldn't he shouldn't be this big hulking um miniature who's gonna have a you know best you in a fight. He's like the the we the the w weedy shaman of the thing of the group. So I think it could look cool, but uh what I feel is slightly let down by the the the back of the miniature doesn't have much going on with it. Right. On so many of the others, there's like there's like stuff what's so cool about other or orc minis, there's always something in like the back, which there's an orc player is one is is awesome because half the time when you're playing is when you're playing on the tabletop, you're seeing the back of your models half the time, which is why space rings is really boring. Oh look, it's another backpack. Whereas for orcs, it's like there's always something interesting to look at at the back of your minis. Whereas with this guy, it's a little bit compared to the others, there's not quite as much going on behind him. Um, at least it also appears like so. I'll wait to see more of it. I'll wait to see how the community paint him up, because he could look a lot better.

SPEAKER_05 2:08:11

Yeah, that's true. And I think, as you're saying, he's probably quite small, but I think the cables are there to give him a bit of bulk and height, basically, to make him look a you know, be a bit more imposing on the tabletop. Okay, cool. Let's go on to the boys, which are the standard uh lot of uh your orcs. Uh you've got your sort of leader sergeant type model, uh, with the is it basically uh was it shooters and choppers? Oh no, shooters, shooter and a slugger. Um Bossnob has uh combi rocket or combi shooter and all the regular guys have choppers as well, I think is what they said.

SPEAKER_00 2:08:56

Uh although I can't see it mentioned there, but yeah, yeah, you've got I think they said that to like Silitales Space Movie, like AUC is kind of standardized that they have a shooter and a slugger and a chopper, regardless of the load up.

SPEAKER_05 2:09:08

Yeah, because it used to be you had uh either the shooter or the like the pistols and the choppers, basically. Uh and now you can see when we get to the images of the back, they're either carrying one of those options, but then the other weapon options like holstered on their back, uh which I think is really cool. Um but yeah, to me, some of these models look better than some of the character models, um, like just in terms of the proportions of these uh what I'm calling inverted triangles. I think they do have that sort of silhouette with the big shoulders, small arms, sort of little legs. Um, but the weapons are very cool. Um, like almost like a spaceman style chain sword here. I love the brimming of the uh ammo coming out and the sort of very sort of second ed style, like little uh helmets, very reminiscent of like 80s motorcycle gangs in movies and stuff like that. Um they're all very cool. Um what are your guys' takes on these guys? Have you got any particular favourites, for example?

SPEAKER_04 2:10:21

I really love the revolver on like the first image that you had. I don't know why. Yeah, like that little revolver just right at the front there. Oh the bottom. Little sub revolver. It just reminds me of um Gorkamorka in a way. In fact, this range does remind me of Gorkamorka for some reason.

SPEAKER_05 2:10:39

But I wouldn't be surprised if they'd been inspired by a lot of those um older um editions of orcs. Uh but again, uh like I said, there's just so much detail on these guys, even though they're like the most basic of orcs, it just feels like it would take a phenomenally long time to paint all of these up, basically.

SPEAKER_04 2:11:03

Yeah. I'm not sure how many points is like a squad of ten these days.

SPEAKER_00 2:11:13

I'm trying not to think too much about that stuff, I can assume they may or may not be rebalancing some of that when this edition drops. Sure.

SPEAKER_04 2:11:19

But it's cheaper. Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 2:11:22

Look, make no makeup. No, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_04 2:11:27

Yeah, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 2:11:28

Ignore what Tim said then. No, these these look really cool. I mean, if you guys if you guys haven't looked in depth for the commandos range after we do after this after school, look at them. Because they are so cool in terms of the details that they add and personality. These look great. Because I I like the new space marine intercessors because they each thought they had personality. But when you compare that to these, the space marine intercessors look boring. Yeah, that's fair. Which isn't meant which isn't isn't to criticize the space marines. But there is just so much personality brimming on these minis because these are just like a bunch of football hooligans who've got into a fight. My favourite thing of these is the uh is the one who's is the orc who's pulled the pin out of the frag grenade with his teeth.

SPEAKER_05 2:12:15

Ooh. Let's uh see if I can go back and find him.

SPEAKER_00 2:12:18

There's a couple of them of examples because I think there's there's two in here, I think. And the guy's got the the the Dr. Octopus style goggles as well. I think that's what we got.

SPEAKER_05 2:12:29

Yes, I I was yeah, I was thinking of the guy from um is it pitch black? He's got some sort of goggles on as well. Yeah, Reddick, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:12:39

But also shout out to both of the boss knobs. Both of the boss knobs are they're gorgeous. Oh the grenade to Yeah, there's this yeah, there's two, there's there's like two versions. I think they've I think they've got there's ten like sculpts with some slight variations you can do in terms of poses, but because there's two that have the exact kind same the exact setup of the grenade to the side and he's pulled the pin out if you scroll through. But both of the bosses.

SPEAKER_05 2:13:02

Yeah, because there's one there.

SPEAKER_00 2:13:03

Uh he's got a grenade there, but he's not got the um there's a grenade on was it page two as well, and then there's another one on uh yeah, I see what you mean.

SPEAKER_05 2:13:17

Yeah, okay. Yeah, different grenades, um, but similar sort of pose and setup, but I think different sculpts. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:13:24

I think it's a I I I think it's the the arms. I so I'm I'm suspecting that there's a lot that the the heads and arms all have the same sort of slotting into the for a lot of them. The bare chested ones I think are gonna have limited arm options in how they in what alternative weapons and poses you can give them. But they all look great. I think these are these are just they're g they're they're gorgeous. Um I I keep saying I don't I want to focus more on AOS, but I'm gonna have to get more into orcs with these.

SPEAKER_05 2:13:55

Yeah, it's uh pretty understandable. Uh cool. With those out the way, uh then there's the Gratchin, which was five of which got previewed uh beforehand. Um again, some of them uh a bit reminiscent of the Second Dead ones. I think it was that one with the little sort of uh spiked helmet and the and the gun. Um uh yeah, I mean they're all quite characterful. I've seen a few people point out that their ears aren't anywhere near as big as uh they used to be in like mini ears. But I think they're I think they're interesting. I think they're still quite characterful. Maybe not as humorous as they're normally depicted. These look quite evil, I would say. A bit nasty looking, but they're still still pretty cool. Um Tim, what's your um impression of these dudes? They are pretty cool, I just don't like the long noses. Yeah, that's the thing that makes them look evil.

SPEAKER_04 2:14:57

Yeah, I don't know, it it irks me. I I I like the original design more.

SPEAKER_05 2:15:03

Hmm. Fair. And then Richie, what what do you think about them?

SPEAKER_00 2:15:07

I think it works with them being more evil because that's what they really were.

SPEAKER_05 2:15:10

They weren't like they were They're called gits for a reason, right?

SPEAKER_00 2:15:14

Yeah, they're not they're not really like the comic relief that say nurglings are. Or snotlings, they are just like little Sorry, waving my arms so you know to cut that. Sorry. Thank you. Sorry, uh they no, they are they are scumbags, is what they are. They're not they're not nice and nice, they're nice. I think they look they're probably they're they look okay, but they don't look um, I don't think they look that kind of good either. I mean I think they look f I think they look fine. I'm I'm just wondering I because when I look at them I think are they all are they push fit or something? Or there's they look very flat. Yeah, they do that you just you just pop them out and that's it.

SPEAKER_05 2:15:55

There's no there's no other they're just like it's just like they're just maybe that is what they are, maybe they're all sort of single um because they're all very they all seem very kind of but there is alternatives, so they've got to but you're right, they do have a very flat pose to them, but it might be it's yeah. They're very one-dimensional, put it that way. Yeah, I think that's fair. Uh cool, any more to say on these guys? No, okay. Uh brilliant. Then we've got uh some of the bigger things. So we've got the war track. Uh uh, they showed off an what the uh the GW team said was the oldest uh war track, but then they corrected themselves because it wasn't the second edition one, it was the Gorkamorka one. But they're both very similar in terms of a guy riding the back with with some uh guns, very reminiscent of what you got to see with squats as well in that sort of second edition era. Um, this I think is really phenomenal. It really harkens back to that old, slightly more manic style of orcs where it's all a bit ramshackle. Um I prefer this, I think, in in visually than the sort of more speed freak stuff that we've seen recently with like the cars and the buggies. Because that looks a bit more wacky races, whereas this feels more orcs to me. But maybe that's just you know the historic design silhouette of this thing rather than those uh newer ones. But yeah, I I I really like this. I think this is a very cool uh mini um yeah, brimling with detail and a pain to paint, probably, but cool nonetheless. And I hope we get more uh things in this sort of style um for for the speedwire basically.

SPEAKER_00 2:17:44

Uh well I think you're absolutely right though, Phil. I think this is not similar to the speed fix at all. I think that the the speed fix they are that their own thing. That's why they've got all the that's the fast vehicles, yeah, where you've got the buggies, you've got the bikes, there's the track, and as of before, I think we're gonna see some I would be very surprised if we don't see more new bikes coming. This feels more like the rank and file orcs stuff. Yeah, I don't think this will be as orcs. Yeah, which sounds awful to say like generic orcs, but then like like the like the the core the core orcs will have this, which is which looks fantastic. I love again that the that the guy the guy on the missiles has got the he's he's got the the the what's um definitely um emblematic of this of this range of we've got I've got an axe made of metal, just strap a strap a USB battery to it and tie and connect it up. That'll be fine, get some extra juice in it.

SPEAKER_05 2:18:36

Yeah, they've all been doing it, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:18:37

They've all been doing that. I think no, it look it look it reminds me of the older stuff, the older minis. It's got just loads of missiles on it. I think I don't know if they say you can have different guns. I don't really care. I think it looks really, really cool. And I think it's part of the I wouldn't think they do. I'm hoping that this is a sign there'll also be a new war truck or some kind of transport for orcs coming because the B snaggers have got the the kill rig, um, regular orcs are they've got the war truck, which is it's it's an it's fine, but it's a very old mini compared to this stuff. So I really hope there's a new transport for orcs coming.

SPEAKER_05 2:19:12

Yeah, that would be good in terms of like a more general release kit for them to come. Um and and you say the bikes as well, because we know we've got the bike uh war boss, haven't we? Um yeah. So Tim, what do you think?

SPEAKER_04 2:19:26

Love it. I hope it comes with like a heavy suburb option. Um I'm not too much of a fan of the missiles, um, but I I understand why they're there. But uh yeah, give me give me heavy subbers and let's remake Gorkamorka.

SPEAKER_05 2:19:39

Yeah, it might be there'll be uh a multi-part kit version down the line with some different weapon options. It seems like this one specifically just comes with rockets, so it's like a sort of mobile heavy weapons platform. Um I love the design and well, the way they've painted up all the different missiles so they all look individual. Um yeah, I think this is a phenomenally cool kit. It looks just more like orky and robust in comparison to the speed treaks as you pointed out, Richie. Um then we've got the I think the last thing.

SPEAKER_00 2:20:10

I was gonna say a couple I guess I was gonna briefly go uh a couple other things. I wouldn't be surprised to I'm I'm hopeful. If you look yeah, so if you stop the screen there for those who are watching the video, Phil edits this in at this point. I would do what you can see at the side is what I think you might see of the actual bike when it comes out, when they have the bike kit, because it looks like a motorbike. You can that that looks like a you got the fuel canist, you've got the fuel canister and stuff. Yeah. I'm really hoping that that's like the core what the platform like a core part of it. It's just like the back that would be different. I'm really looking forward to seeing that there.

SPEAKER_05 2:20:41

Oh yeah, I I I think so.

SPEAKER_00 2:20:43

And another dead beaky boy.

SPEAKER_05 2:20:45

So they seem to like their beaky boys, but I maybe that's tying it in with sort of Second Dead, although weirdly, Second Dead didn't have Beaky Boys in it um at all. Um, but it I guess it's harking back to retro um space beings, which is odd because actually there's not many beaky helmets that are primaris. Um that's because it's well it's because the all the orcs have them, right? Um maybe.

SPEAKER_00 2:21:14

Uh one other last thing before we go on to one of the coolest menus that's ever been created. Uh uh well, in my opinion. Um Tim, my brother in Dawar. I'm loving that you're on board, but it's a we don't call it a stubber, we call it a shooter.

SPEAKER_04 2:21:28

Oh, sorry, mate. I did not want to.

SPEAKER_00 2:21:30

You've got to get the lingo down if you're gonna come with us on Dawar, mate. You want the heavy shooters?

SPEAKER_04 2:21:36

That's it. That's what we're gonna do. All I want to say is just slap more Daca on it, mate.

SPEAKER_00 2:21:40

There you go, that's what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_05 2:21:42

Nice, right? Speaking of DACA, yeah, exactly. We've got the Big Mac Dacca rig, uh, which literally has all the DACA on it. It's uh a guy riding a two-legged walker with the biggest gun possibly ever. Um it's it's quite impressive. I think my initial thoughts was I was disappointed it didn't have four legs and it's only got two. And I think that was just my impression of how it looked on the uh animation when they first previewed it. I just assumed that's what it would have. So when I was like, oh, it doesn't, uh, and then I think they pointed out in the live stream it looks like a squig. And I was like, oh yeah, okay, because I was like, oh, it's a weird chicken thing, uh, but it's meant to be a giant squig. I sort of like the fact it's like um it's like they've been inspired by the Sentinel, and they're like, Oh, we can do that. Oh, yeah, two legs, lots of guns, um, uh, and that then this is what we've got. I think it's quite impressive. I think the clawed feet is the bit that I just don't like. Um, but like everything else, the gun itself I think is just beautiful. Like the weird jumbo cylinder, I think looks uh phenomenal. Um he's got his uh like is it force field generator on his back? Uh what's the actual technical term for that?

SPEAKER_00 2:23:07

Um yeah, that for for a mech that will be that's usually that looks like some kind of force field generator.

SPEAKER_05 2:23:13

Yes, yeah. But the the the big mechs have a particular word for that force field, don't they? Oh, custom force field. Custom it's custom for field, yeah, that's it. So yeah, he's got one of those on the back as well. Um yeah, it looks really interesting. It looks like it's like quite a decent like size. I guess if you were to look at this and compare it to the land speeder, it's like, well, this is really cool and interesting, and the land speed is a bit boring in comparison, right? And this is like a brand new thing. Um it's yeah, it's it's sort of interesting as a as a concept, sort of they because they were making comparisons to say it was fitting with a dread mob, which is like your your death dreads and your killer cans, because this is a similar big walker uh type thing. Um so yeah, i it's interesting to see something sort of new and different, and it feels so much more orky than the I'm trying to think of a name of it. It was like those mini, the mini gargants that they oh the Gorkin Augs. Gorkonauts, yeah, because those just never really seemed to they were orky, but they I don't know, they just look too neat. Whereas this feels much more ramshackly orky to me, uh, in comparison to to to that to those kits. Uh, but I sort of understood what they were trying to do with it. Um but yeah, so Richie, you're saying it's the best mini out of the whole box.

SPEAKER_00 2:24:44

I think it's definitely one of the best minis out of the whole box. It's one of the it's a it's a great mini for being able to connect the dots and the visual motifs they've gone for here with the orcs, because I think um we might have talked about this the other day actually. Um but the people at home don't know that. Uh the I've what it was when I got to this mini, um, and specifically in the in the full breakdown where you see the other sides and the rear of it, it's like, oh, this entire orcs range has been taking the awesome Gazkul Foreca mini and applying that to an army of orcs. Because the the way the armor looks and the legs and the like the motors and the pipes is very clearly connected to the Gazco Mini, and it feels like it it feels like it's as a connection, like the orc technology being slightly ramjackal, but very angular pieces, it's fantastic. And the thing that I really love about this mini that it's it's it's so not obvious because I don't think there's a way they can show you is that that massive gun is being fed by bullets on both sides.

SPEAKER_05 2:25:45

Yeah, you can see on the left and the right, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:25:47

Yeah, it's got like these giant bowels of bullets being fed in from the ball.

SPEAKER_05 2:25:52

It was interesting because yeah, in the live stream they're like, oh that there's two fuel canisters um right next to him, but you're right, they're actually ammo drums instead.

SPEAKER_00 2:26:03

Oh yeah, they're not fuel canisters, they're two massive ammo drums feeding in from both sides and the producer. I mean it's it's utterly ridiculous, but it's the great, it's the it's some parts of it make me feel like it's a bit sort of scaven-y in a way, in that it's just like pushing crazy technology to a to an extreme um with some of the stuff in the age in the AOS they've had. Um in like a f design philosophy approach, not like visual, well like actual aesthetics. But that's what this is, it's like, oh yeah, we're gonna this this gonna I I hadn't heard the reference to it being a giant squig.

SPEAKER_05 2:26:35

Um giveaway, I didn't watch the live stream, I just looked at the Yeah, because you can see so like you've got the feet, and then this bit here is like its jaw, uh, and then the overall like squig body, I guess, and then they've sort of yeah, painted something on the shield, basically.

SPEAKER_00 2:26:54

Um it looks it looks super cool. I I can't wait to see this on the table and your opponent being like it's the kind of thing that you'll have, and then you'll by the sound of it, what they've said, if it doesn't move, it's better at shooting. But for an orc, that means you're hitting on a four usually rather than a five. But it's like this thing will probably could probably and it got the rockets away, this thing could probably be devastating if it could hit something.

SPEAKER_05 2:27:15

Yeah, I mean I I'm assuming it's gonna be like a a bucket of dice that you've got to throw when you're you're shooting, because it feels like it's got a lot in it. Um I don't know what it is, but there's a little white artifact here that's clearly not meant to be overlaying the image. I don't know if that's just on my screen, but there's clearly something there that's I think from Photoshop because it's not transparent, like that's where the gun should be. It's very odd. I just noticed it as we've been scrolling uh up and down. But yeah, uh and then Tim Wodji, what's your take on this guy? I don't like it.

SPEAKER_00 2:27:53

It's okay, Tim. We'll buy two boxes. I'll take this part, I'll take what I'll take this one. Take a second one. Yeah, I'll take a second one of you. There you go. I'll put I'll buy off you from the box.

SPEAKER_04 2:28:02

Um uh I just think it looks stupid, to be honest. Like uh, I know it's supposed to be orky and I know they're wacky and they're crazy. I think it's because a part of me wanted to see a mechanical squig off because I love the squig-off model from the 412 old team.

SPEAKER_05 2:28:20

Well, this is a mechanical squig.

SPEAKER_04 2:28:22

Not a squiggoff. No, I know. Not minting my words, Phil. And I don't know, it's it just looks again, it's that orky design, and so yes, it does look cumbersome and it shouldn't work, but as we know with orc technology, you just have to believe in it and it will work. Um, but this is maybe just a step too far in my mind. Um I just feel like it'll just fall flat on its face every time. It's it's kind of like it's kind of like Ed 209 from RoboCop. A worse version.

SPEAKER_05 2:28:58

I was about to say it looks like Ed 209 in terms of its cumbersome, like I imagine it's rocking back and forth as it moves and spins around and what have you.

SPEAKER_04 2:29:07

Um and and I think I yeah, I I just I guess I just would have liked to have seen it in a four-legged version, like uh maybe more of like an 8080 kind of design hat uh out of squig off. Maybe we will. Maybe maybe we will.

SPEAKER_00 2:29:21

Could you imagine if that's if we're not getting a new war truck that we're gonna get like a four-legged squig off thing instead of a war truck? Maybe.

SPEAKER_04 2:29:28

Maybe I think I I think in all honesty, if you maybe like change the front of it where the rockets are uh coming out and maybe change that to more of a face.

SPEAKER_05 2:29:38

Um put the rockets on the side or something.

SPEAKER_04 2:29:41

Yeah, yeah, just to balance it out a little bit more, I uh it probably wouldn't irk me as much.

SPEAKER_05 2:29:47

Um it does well if you look sideways, it is sort of I guess it is sort of balanced because you've got all the the fuel and the engine, I guess, uh and the exhaust is like a counterweight, but it does it there's a lot happening at the front as well. But if you took away the rockets, it would be more of a classic silhouette of just a single gun up top, uh perhaps. So maybe maybe you're right, maybe that would do something for it. Um cool. Have you guys got any more to add on the Big Mac Daca rig?

SPEAKER_04 2:30:20

Not from me.

SPEAKER_00 2:30:22

One thing I was tempted at to say, I was just trying to check look at the existing minis in the range to see if it's if it's something new they've done specifically with this one. But you can definitely see lots of welding in this mini of like stuff that's been of like of like between the joints and like the metal, like the kind of spikes coming out the front. You can see the way it's been where it's where like they've had to take a weld as to that to get that on with some of the pipes welded together. Yeah, yeah, that's cool. I don't know if that's the I I don't know if that's that this is the first time they've done yeah, it's definitely the first time I've really noticed it. Um but yeah, I just think it looks really cool. This is one of the is one of those minis which I both love and I I loathe because I hate subassemblies because it takes me ages to paint minis and I like to just blitz it out.

SPEAKER_03 2:31:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:31:05

But this is one of those, I'm gonna have to paint this in different pieces and then put it together.

SPEAKER_05 2:31:09

I think so. I don't know how easy it would be to do that. Um I sort of hope it is possible um for that reason. But as you say, um it yeah, again, I that was my sort of thing with the whole army. It looks beautiful and I would like it, but it's very intimidating from a painting point of view because it's just got so much detail on and it would take a long time to paint up, I think. Um, and with that, I presume we can move on to the end a bit, uh, where there's some final photos of everything showing off alongside those um what are they called? Gorka morts, or morcuna. Morconauts, yeah, that just don't look that great, I don't think. They're just not quite as ramshackle, but I don't know. Um then we've got them painted up in their different sort of subfactions. Interesting when it's all red. There I would say it doesn't look very good, I don't think. It just looks too plain, uh, but it kind of goes to show you how much sort of freehand detail they put on that um original one. Um and then yeah, a blue version.

unknown 2:32:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:32:23

I guess here you can see a bit more of a size of the scale of the war boss with the regular orcs. And actually, those regular orcs are quite small. Um, but yeah, in summary, um, I mean I feel like I've said enough about the orcs in terms of I'd be very tempted to own them. Don't really want to paint them. The yeah, in a way, maybe I just want like the war boss, because I think he's probably my favourite mini out of a lot. Uh, and then the regular orc knobs look really cool, and then some of the other characters a bit hit-miss. Um, but they are all very cool, and I think they're very exciting as a range overall, and for that reason, feel like the more exciting half of the range. Um, yeah, Tim, what is your take on the orcs?

SPEAKER_04 2:33:12

I overall I think it's a really nice range, and there's some lovely design nods to the old second edition and and going forward. Um I feel still feel like there's a few more kits that they could have updated that you can see in the background.

SPEAKER_05 2:33:27

Um well that might come, I think.

SPEAKER_04 2:33:30

That might come. Um, which is always a fingers crossed moment. I will probably pick uh one or two key characters up uh just to paint. Like I like the idea of just painting um the orc boys knob. I think that's a pretty cool model, as Rich pointed out.

SPEAKER_03 2:33:45

Hmm.

SPEAKER_05 2:33:46

And then Richie as the orc aficionado, what's your take?

SPEAKER_00 2:33:51

I think they look I look they look fantastic. They have just they look really cool. One one thing I should give a shout out to is on the the images of like the different paint. paint jobs on the Warmer Community article you can see the de I think it's the def skulls it's the blue one. The blue one is cool because they show what the the what's it called? I've already forgotten what it's called. The big the the Dakarig. On the Dakarig it's it they paint it the way I would paint an orc vehicle which is each each panel is a different colour. Oh yeah like it's been put together and also he's actually got it kind of makes me want to take back some of the things I said earlier. Well not take it back because I stand by what I said on the weird boy because the weird boy there looks really cool. The paint job they've done the weird boy in this and who's in the the the back there he looks that that looks a cool weird boy. That version I like so I I think some of it will come down to the paint jobs. I think the the this is a really cool box. Even the Space Marines who I'm I'd be so inclined to say yeah they look really cool um for Space Marines but I just love the orcs. These are the this the orcs you get in this box are all so cool.

SPEAKER_05 2:34:55

Yeah what's interesting is they've basically painted up the orcs four times in each of the different colours which is a big awesome obviously you can sort of tell that these ones aren't painted up to quite the heavy metal standard and it's more the army painters but still a lot of models and a lot of people involved in painting them up just to show you an alternative paint scheme. I mean that's quite an impressive uh effort especially when all so far you've seen is one photo but I'm sure in the books and in the codexes there'll be uh more photos uh of them but it's yeah it's great to see the the the different options um well it i is that everyone's final thoughts on the box yeah okay because because we were think that's good uh because we were thinking about talking about uh the campaign book um and the contents like the uh cards and stuff uh but as we've already talked long enough on the Marines and the Orcs we'll call it there uh and we'll go on to a little bit of an outro uh so transitional noise oops ox talks talks oops talks oops talks oops talks oops welcome back it's just me now for the five star review the other two have well they've not gone to bed but they've gone off to enjoy their lovely afternoon uh while I carry on with the last bit of the show just on my own. So yes five star review uh coming up now we've taken this from the YouTube comments because as I mentioned in previous episode I've started to uh take some five star YouTube comments because you can't always leave them in other places and a lot of the people might be watching along on YouTube. So this one comes from episode 234 from John Wills4661 uh his five star review says love the podcast the amount of effort and research you put in shines through like one of the five stars always look forward to a video show up on my subscription feed thanks and keep going had to do the review like this because I'm not an Apple Podcast app. Hope it reaches you if not is a bit of interaction for your video I guess. So yeah thank you John I do greatly appreciate it it's um as I said I'm doing these uh YouTube five stars because as you rightly pointed out a lot of people aren't on the podcast stuff and that they're finding us just on the YouTubes greatly appreciate it glad you enjoy the effort that we put into some of the episodes I say we like there's uh I mean sometimes it's a we sometimes it's a me this uh episode was a we um yeah I I I appreciate them and I'm sure any five-star reviews aimed at Richie and Tim will also be greatly appreciated by them. Uh if you yourself would like to leave a five star review you can do it over on Apple Podcasts over on Audible Spotify I think you can just leave five stars but you can't leave a actual review so we can't read anything out there and likewise if you're over on the YouTubes you can leave us a five star comment make sure you title it five stars and I'll hopefully pick up on it and add it to the list of five stars that I am reading out there's a few left so please keep it up because it's just greatly appreciated basically if you would like to support the show in other ways you can obviously like and subscribe you can share it with your friends you can comment on either the YouTube or social media posts that we do any form of interaction is greatly appreciated. Lastly you can buy some merch or you can head over to Patreon and back the show over on there and all of that money goes towards supporting the show hopefully you've noticed the slightly better camera setup and that's because I finally got the new laptop which was basically funded by you guys. So that's greatly appreciated. Thank you very much. It did also make recording so much easier but which was the main issue before basically my laptop my old laptop did not have the processing power to handle recording Tim Ritchie and a screen plus me all at the same time but this time it was seamless. So that actually made our recording a lot more speedier because last time it it added an extra half an hour at least to to the show trying to sort out all the technical issues each time because it had a mini mini crash um between each section. So that's greatly appreciated. So yeah please do keep uh supporting the show it means a lot and makes carrying on the show a lot easier um so yeah that's it for the five stars I believe I don't think there's anything else to say I'll do a mini outro uh while I'll just have a quick ramble and I'll see you there in a second. Transitional noise so it's the last a bit of a show the outro again it's just me. This one is really going to be just a super short outro just to effectively say farewell. I would have liked it to have been a slightly longer episode where we could have talked about the the books and the cards I'm really excited about those personally I think that'd be um one of the key selling points to the the the box basically and sound like they're quite good additions to the game. Hopefully we talk about that in a bit more detail in a later episode. However I it I didn't want the episode to go on too long mostly because Tim and Richie had better things to be doing on their day. I'm also madly busy painting up my Nighthorn army uh for the grand tournament in Nottingham where I'll be uh on the weekend this episode comes out uh so ideally I need to really be painting not editing a podcast but I've determined to make sure I can do both basically but I'm making reasonably good headway on the Nighthorn I've got 35 models to paint up I'm mostly there with some of them the Mongol which is the big giant in fact you can see it here because on my new camera should show it up a bit nicer. So it's currently looking this slightly uh garish uh colour but it's gonna be this is the dark tones of the shadows and then it's gonna be airbrushed with some much lighter colours. So mostly it's going to be airbrush work uh so should look a bit nicer by the end but that's the main one I've got to get painted up. Everything else is in a much better condition if I go grab one. So for example I've got the Lord Executioner here which you can see if I just put my hand in front so you can see a bit more contrast I need to do some washes on it still and I'd like to airbrush a bit of transition on the axe between the spectral ghostly stream and then I need to do some texture paint on the base and just do the rim. But everything else is done it's just washes at this stage um and I'm sort of midway through the washes when it comes to uh all the other models uh which is the 20 chain rasps well actually it's 21 because I I had a spare one and I've converted one up so I've got a uh hero model if I want to have it as two separate units um of 10 or one unit of uh 20. So that's why I ended up with an extra one. I don't know really why I bothered doing that but that that's what I ended up doing. So I've got 21 uh models of those I've got uh 10 craven from guard which are the biggest pain to paint up because there is so much detail on those models. The crossbows has loads of detail on them each one has loads of sort of detail on the model in terms of you've got the cloak but also you've got some chainmail hanging down and chainmail showing through holes in the hoods some of them are wearing helmets then they're all carrying satchels and each satchel is carrying a a side arm like a sword or an axe and then that's got the arrows in it as well inside that satchel um and there's a yeah it's a bunch of extra detail and they're also holding the crossbow in a way which makes it very det difficult to get inside to paint the rear side of the crossbow and you know with a space main that's not normally a problem because they're spectral ghosts there's plenty of gaps and holes where you can see through to the rear of the weapon so it's very difficult basically having to poke a tiny brush through a hole and try and paint all of those up and it you can't really build it in subassemblies either because of the way the ghosts are built without there being hideous mould lines. So you need to sort of build it all to clean up all the mould lines so they're all smooth because you know ghosts shouldn't have visible mould lines in them. And so yeah uh in addition to that there's uh two chain ghasts chain ghasts yeah chain ghast models which are like these mini characters and then one Lord executioner which is the one I've just shown you plus the Mongol which is the giant which I've just shown you so that's what I'll be that's what I'm painting up new to go into my army for the Grand Tournament. The next episode all things crossed fingers at ready uh we will be talking about that grand tournament um in that episode Tim and Richie will be on uh Dan who will be in attendance contractly not allowed to join the podcast so I'm sure we can reference what he got up to but sadly he can't join us uh but it should be an exciting weekend up in uh Warhammer World if for example you happen to live in the area and want to come say hello to us by all means do so we will uh be about on those days uh there's some other exciting things happening in the world I think I should just quickly mention um John Blanche's On Guard has just hit Kickstarter now originally it was pitched as a 4mm scale dueling game basically two giant models millimeter scale which is the same scale as um the old Inquisitor game and obviously it's John Blanche who did the old original game as well and then Thomas Pirium who's been behind More Time but also more recently Trench Crusade he's doing the game design itself for the dual and game John Blanche has done the kind of concept work and the art for the miniatures other artists have been involved in terms of sculpting the miniatures so this Kickstarter is just for the 54mm scale miniatures sadly doesn't actually cover the game itself which I was a little bit disappointed by so I think this is called On Guard Vanguard I think it was called basically a pre-kickstar well so Kickstarter for the miniatures and then if this is a success there will be another Kickstarter for the full game. The miniatures themselves are a mixture of resin with some bits being cast in metal specifically for the weapons because they might they thought they might be a bit too fragile in resin. Part of me was a bit disappointed by that because I think I would have rather it just be all resin and deal with the issue of some bits being a bit fragile because ultimately for me while I'm really interested in the rules I probably wouldn't play it that much other than once or twice. For me they're display pieces. The models are a mixture of sort of pirates um and um sort of Marie Antoinette style you know charlatans and nobility uh with like rapiers and things like that but with a kind of corrupted uh twist to it one of them is like a sort of zombie pirate character they all look really interesting I would love to be able to buy them all uh but it's like$250 or something for the full set of I think it's seven miniatures uh or it's seven plus the special miniature and one of the special miniatures is like the main one you see in all the promo artwork. He looks phenomenal he's like a a the real pirate vagabond he's the one I really want but you can't easily buy him you've got to either buy him as an add-on for one of the others or you've got to buy them all as a set. But he's basically more expensive than all the others so I think I might just buy one or two of the models one to support the uh to support the guys involved but also to support the game um but also because I'd like just a few of those miniatures to own and paint up one day and sort of own a piece of history as well I think because I think it'll be really interesting to see where it'll go. I think the Kickstarter's already fulfilled there's definitely a stretch goal which is another model but I don't think they've reached that just yet or at least at the time of recording I think Kickstarter's been out for two days now. So by the time you've listened to this by all means on guard E-N-G A U R D I believe um and you should hopefully find the Kickstarter it should still be going for a few more weeks I believe so yeah I thought I would just mention that because that was something that definitely interested me and I've been following it along there's a Facebook page at least which is where I've been getting all the info about it that you can join and follow and you can see all the art and stuff like that. So I would check out that if you want to know more. And I think that's it. I'm not going to say any more next week talking well not next week's next episode in two weeks' time we will be discussing the Age of Sigma Grand Tournament how we've all done how terrible we did but how much we enjoyed it is probably going to be the summary of that episode. And if there's anything exciting 40k news related in between then we might have time to cram it in next episode I should be a bit more free uh in terms of my time in terms of editing and production uh this one was a little bit rushed because of all the painting I've got to do. So I do apologize for that. I will try better next time. Transitional noise no not a transitional noise from my onabouts. Goodbye everyone bye bye